Talk:Dusty Baker/Archive 1

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"Baker almost never comes out of the dugout to back up a ballplayer on a disputed call[citation needed]."

No citiation is needed for that. As I Cubs fan who has witnessed this, I'm citation enough. --Chitomcgee 04:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

NO CITATION NEEDED? HOW ABOUT THE KETTLE CALLING THE POT BLACK? This page should be rebuilt from scratch by an unbiased writer. How can anyone say "No citiation is needed for that. As I Cubs fan who has witnessed this, I'm citation enough"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHY A CITATION IS NEEDED! Emotional outrage at your teams performance is no basis for writing a biographical summary of anyone.

As a matter of fact, I wrote an intelligent counterpoint to each of the points written in the biography, complete with citations and references to counter the biased opinions. The writer sent me a message through the Wikipedia system that read "Wikipedia is no place for your biased ramblings." A classic case of the kettle calling the pot black!

Look...if you make statements of opinion without citing your references, then chastise those who post verifiable counter-arguments, you are being hypocritical. Your opinion is not based in fact without specific, verifiable references; it's simply an emotional reaction. You can't have it both ways.

ANOTHER VIEW Wow, this page must have been written in large part by a bitter Cub fan. I don't think it's that unusual that the Cubs' manager doesn't want to cheer for either the crosstown club or their most-hated rival. And commitment to retaining the integrity of the pennant race? That makes sense. He wants to make sure the Cubs play the best spoiler role they can. Admittedly, yeah, when you're out of the race, maybe you want to play some of your younger players but I think Dusty's point was just that his team wasn't giving up. And a belief that Maddux was going to retire? He was 39. It's not like he was 31 or something. And really, although I'm not denying he said that, I didn't hear about it. And really, he did a fantastic job for the Gnats for 10 years. And anyway, it's not Dusty who's not hitting home runs, or who's one of their "top" starting pitchers who seems to get injured each time he seems to get out of a Barcalounger. C'mon Cub fans, y'all had ridiculous luck with a certain Michael Jordan leading your b-ball team during the '90s.....your time will come, just ask White and Red Sox fans. -Wikitoddia 01:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

BIASED
Whoever wrote the article in reference to dusty baker is either biased or a punk. That article was totally unfair-shit I wouldn't root for my crosstown rival either. I didn't get that. If you are a cub fan and are bitter, then don't hate the manager but hate those that hired him-they have a history of never getting the right guy. Lee Elia's still available, maybe we should bring him back!

IT'S WORTH NOTING
Here's some counter-points with CITABLE references.

The author discusses starting pitchers, yet fails to note the following - Robb Nen was never a starting pitcher; Russ Ortiz has averaged 208 innings per year, while Greg Maddux has a 231 inning per season average; Chad Fox only pitched 8 innings with Dusty Baker as manager (hardly qualifying as overuse); Wood and Prior both had pre-existing injury issues when Baker took over; No pitcher on a Dusty Baker managed team has ever led the league in innings pitched. REFERENCE: BASEBALLREFERENCE.COM

The author states Baker mis-handles rookie players. However, when reviewing BASEBALL AMERICA'S list of the Top 500 prospects for 2006, the Cubs only have 11 players or 2.2% of the players on the list. This list is indicative of the state of the Cubs farm system over the past few years which is more a reflection of the front office than on Dusty. It's tough to play rookies who really shouldn't even be in the majors. REFERENCE: BASEBALL AMERICA Ignoring Statistics when filling out lineups is another complaint. However, a quick glance of the rosters for last year and 2006 show that there aren't many other options. Corey Patterson had speed, so when he did get on, at least it was a weapon. Neifi Perez is really an old school #2 guy in that he is a proficient bunter, a legitimate hit-and-run threat, and hits behind the runner. Are there better #2 guys in the league? Of course, but no one else on the Cubs roster is as proficient at putting the ball in play as strategy dictates. Juan Pierre is clearly not the player he once was, but management signed him to fill the leadoff spot. Again, more a reflection of the state of the team than on the managers game plan. REFERENCE: MLB.COM Rosters page According to The Ultimate Baseball Strategy Guide, the purpose of a double switch is greater than simply pinch-hitting. Generally, the double-switch is used to re-align where the pitchers spot falls in the batting order, to set-up a different pinch-hitting scenario later in the game, to improve your defensive line-up, or some combination of the three. The criticism offered by the author is levied from being uninformed. REFERENCE: THE ULTIMATE BASEBALL STRATEGY GUIDE The author complains that Baker never comes out of the dugout to back up a ballplayer on a disputed call. Yet this would contradict Baker's reputation as a player's manager. The authors only citation for his comment is he's "seen it with his own eyes, and that's enough." Sorry, but that isn't enough. REFERENCES: WIKIPEDIA DUSTY BAKER DISCUSSION PAGE The author criticizes Baker for saying that walks clog the bases for guys who can run. Two problems here: 1. In the original discussion of this topic, Baker was talking about why he batted certain good-hitting catchers and fielders lower in the line-up than one might think. This wasn't simply a wanton comment. 2. Dusty Baker was brought up in the Braves organization which taught aggressive hitting at the plate. Baker was surrounded by veterans such as Hank Aaron, Ralph Garr, Rico Carty and Earl Williams who all were willing to swing at what they could reach. It's part of who he is. REFERENCES: BASEBALLREFERENCE.COM, SAN FRANCISCO MAGAZINE, I HAD A HAMMER by HANK AARON The topic of playoff race integrity has been addressed in numerous books, articles, news reports and sports discussion shows. All have come to the same conclusion: In order to preserve the integrity of the game, teams who are out of the race should field their best team whenever playing a game that has post-season implications. NOTABLE REFERENCES INCLUDE books by Whitey Herzog, Tim McCarver, Leonard Koppett, Jerry Remy, George Will, Bob Gibson, Joe Torre and many, many others.

Praise / Criticism
The praise and criticism sections need to go. For one thing, it's turning the article into a bullet point essay with two contrasting points. Rather than deleting one, and leaving another, I suggest both sections be deleted, and other major points within the section be sewn in within the article. --ShadowJester07 03:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, neither section cites sources - they could both easily be reomoved -- No Guru 03:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Seeing as no one has any other dissenting opinions, I shall go ahead and delete the two sections. --ShadowJester07 18:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism?
It seems that significant portions of this article have been stolen from this webpage, - I recommend a re-write --ShadowJester07 18:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC).

Wikiproject Chicago
Dusty Baker is no longer associated with Chicago. 67.173.189.180 16:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Coaching Career Did Not Start with the Giants in 1988
We saw an Oakland A's Milwaukee Brewers game in July of 1985 with Don Sutton making one of his pitching starts for the A's. We were sitting 5 rows behind the A's dugout and guess who the Oakland batting coach was?

Mr. Dusty Baker. After the game when the players were heading through the dug out and out, a dad brought his 9 or 10 year old son down to the first row to try and get an autograph of players. Baker puts both hands up and goes "Sorry, no autographs tonight." At which point my friend Dave in his Giants hat and "25th Anniversary Giants in SF" sweat shirt on (in a sea of Kelly green and gold) stands up and yells at Baker, "Sign the kids baseball Baker! Once a Dodger, always a f*cking Dodger!" Baker took one look at psychotic Dave and ducked out of sight. It was hilarious. The sit on their hands season ticket holding A's fans appeared shocked. What a Geratol crowd A's fans are behind their own dugout.

So, I personally saw Baker in an A's uniform in 1985. And he wasn't playing. So the stating of Baker started his coaching career in SF in 1988 is inaccurate if any one else can verify that.

Dusty Baker didn't end Wood's or Prior's career
Wood came back as a reliever and Prior is attempting a comeback as a Padre. I know what they're trying to say, but it isn't accurate. DandyDan2007 (talk) 07:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Reword the article :) Kingturtle (talk) 12:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Reminder (though most people probably don't need (or want) it
Can we please make sure to sign off comments with the 4 ~. It is really easy to do. Jasynnash2 (talk) 12:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)