Talk:Dutch cuisine/Archive 1

Edible Cannabis
I think that it is important to include information on the production and consumption of foods which include Cannabis in the Netherlands. It is a unique part of the Dutch culinary tradition, especially when one considers that it is the only western nation where one may enjoy such delicacies legally. Hash, the resin of Cannabis buds, is frequently incorporated into such foods as fudge and cupcakes, whereas the bud itself is most frequently used in the preparation of butter and thereby in many baked goods and dishes. The variety of products alone warrants the effort, and the consequent ups and downs of the marketing and consumption of these products broadens the scope of the issue. Thanks.

Harrisonburg, Va. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.253.189 (talk) 18:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * in this context, could you define "tradition" ? i'd be highly sceptical about introducing this as i don't see how eating cannabis is a "tradition" in the netherlands. the fact that other countries are anal about legalising pot, is not enough of a reason, me thinks :) 78.90.187.26 (talk) 17:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

The selling is not officially legal in the Netherlands and Foreign countries might think the dutch eat those things all the time but it is not very common. It's not a tradition. The only difference from other countries is that the possesion is not illegal. I'm from the Netherlands and I know nobody who ever eaten this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.67.50.154 (talk) 13:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure. And it is potentially dangerous, to sell or serve stuff like this. An inocent looking cake might contain who knows what, and the person eating it will not know about it unless warned. It is not a good idea mentioning it in the article.

Warrington (talk) 19:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Needs to be updated
I've removed some of the linguistic errors. The writer of this article obviously loves to use the word "include" for just about anything and cannot get enough of splitting phrases with commas. This article should be completely rewritten by another native engl. speaker (I don't have time for this), as it sounds a bit lobotomized (or translate-word-by-word-dictionary-style).

Thank you!

Annette - San Francisco, CA

I removed the following
The Italian, Surinam, and Japanese cuisine are not seen as belonging to Dutch cuisine, somewhat in contrast to certain Dutch East Indian dishes. This not an article about food consumed in the Netherlands.
 * "Apart from Indonisian food, also mediterranean (especially Italian) food is quite popular nowadays, and the Surinam, Indian and Japanese cuisine seem to be rising in popularity."

Andries 20:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You might however include it in the context that the familiarity of the Dutch with their original Dutch cuisine is brought down to a large extent due to the popularity of foreign cuisines. How many people do you know that have tasted bloedworst, hete bliksem, roggebrood or grutjes? SietskeEN 13:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * very true, but may be we should only write down this generalization if there is a source for it. I am not saying that perfect sourcing is important for everything in this article, but it may be important for making such a generalizations. Andries 18:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think this article should make a distinction between traditional Dutch cuisine and the multicultural contemporary Dutch cuisine. Andries (talk) 07:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Neerlandicism
"When concerning alcoholic beverages" is a Neerlandicism or "Dunglish", a bad translation of the Dutch "Waar het gaat over alcoholische dranken ..." I've removed it. C mon 16:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly I wrote that senstence, and I didn't translate it. To me it sounds like perfectly good English. Given the fact that you're a native Dutch speaker as well it might be wise to ask a native.
 * Rex 16:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It is correct in itself but it presumes a previous context within the same paragraph...and there isn't.
 * Like: He likes to eat a lot (imagine a list of food here)When concerning alcoholic beverages his preference would be a simple ale or glass of port.
 * As you are starting a new paragraph it isn't the correct formulation.--Puppy Zwolle (Puppy) 10:56, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It does sound a bit odd. I would phrase such a line using Discussing or Considering. Concerning has something of concern (zorg) in it. But again, an opinion of a Dutchy.... Arnoutf 16:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Try "Regarding alcoholic beverages…". I'm a native English speaker. --miltonBradley 12:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpoticha (talk • contribs)

Some cleanup restructure wanted?
To be honest I think this page can be improved. Now it is more or less a collection of lists with little relations. And to be honest a Frikadel is hardly a main dish; nor is Zuurkool (zuurkool stampot is of course). Of course such ingredients are important parts of the main dish, but not the whole thing. If you all agree I will think about how to restructure, and have a look at some other cuisines how they did it. Arnoutf 20:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Pictures of Dutch Food
I hope that my new picture of typical Dutch food more appealing is. . .  --Iijjccoo 08:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think both are pretty ok, but I think the image (i.e. phototechnique) can be improved. Your rooiekool image is very dark (cabbage and meat seem almost black on screen). Also I see light reflecitng from the meal which makes the picture less appealing. Also lack of shadows makes the image very flat, no suggestion of 3D (I guess you ushed a flashlight). This is furhter enhanced by the very top-down view the camera seems to have been positioned almost perpendecularly above the meal. The table is very dark and the wood attracts the attention away from the plate. If you compare this image with the others on the page you may see the difference, e.g. the oliebollen, also from above, but less extremely, image background is a very even, boring green. Lighting is homogenous (so I guess no flash there). Or the tomatoes, taken from the front with little depth sharpness. I hope you agree these photo's as photo's are nicer images. So if you want to improve try things like this: Boring background (white tablecloth) to draw attention to plate. No use of flash but try to get a normal environment (to avoid mirroring light, and leave shadows essential for sense of depth). Take the image from a slightly lower angle (less from above), to increase depth. Just shoot 20 with small variations and take the best. I hope all these ideas did discourage you, because I agree one of those Vlees-Groente-aardappel meals should be on the page, and I am not sure I could make a better picture as easily as comment one. Arnoutf 08:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea of pictures of common Dutch meals but at least try to make it look good... we Dutch might only care about how it tastes, but others don't (Hence the Oliebollen and Slagroomtaart pics) I think a ligher surface would change a lot. A white table for example. Rex 08:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, I will try to make a better picture of common Dutch meals with a boring background :-) It will probebly will take a couple of days becourse I'm fat up eating typical Dutch. Next week I will eat Dutch again, the rest of this week it will be Piza and pasta :-)--Iijjccoo 11:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I will keep my camera at hand, next time I serve dinner with "kapucijners met spek en piccalilly"! I'll try to make a salad too, in order to gain a more colorful picture... :-) SietskeEN 10:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Though it's not really a picture of food, I include it here. The picture of the tea a that of a cup of tea with milk. Dutch people don't drink tea with milk, that is English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.90.42.250 (talk) 19:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Slagroomtaart.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

And here is an other one: http://www.thehollandring.com/kerstfeest.htm Christmas in The Netherlands....

In present day Netherlands the Sinterklaas tradition is (still) stronger than the Christmas traditions, There are no set rules as regards the Christmas dinner, but game, roast pork or meat fondue are popular main dishes.

In my family ... a delicious breakfast with "Kerststol" (a fruit&almond-paste bread), "krentebolletjes" (current buns) and "roomboter" (real butter). Dinner start off with a chicken soup and a "pasteitje" (Vol-au-Vent filled with a roux) My mom would make a delicious "rollade" (rolled pork) with plenty of tasty "jus" (gravy) for the boiled potatoes... the veggies were usual carrots and peas. Dinner was finished off with a cup of coffee and some cake

christmas fare
The article introduced without any references that typical Dutch christmas meals consist of: roast beef, duck, rabbit, pheasant or roasted or glazed ham

Basically this is a listing of Beef, Porc, Poultry and Game (ie all types of meat)

I am from the Netherlands and game is traditional christmas meal, but that typically includes larger game Wild Pig, and Dear (Porc and venison). I have never ever encountered this list of typical Dutch christmas meals, nor have I seen these product marketed especially around christmas in supermarkets or butcher shops. The list has to go until a reference can be given. Arnoutf (talk) 19:38, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The list seems quite reasonable to me. It doesn't include Turkey, fish, lamb, chicken, do I need to go on? I think adding in game and clarifying the types of food would be great. Taking all of the content out is unhelpful in my view. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Reasonable is not making it right. As I said, from personal experience (35 years living in the Netherlands) I do not recognise any of these food items as special Christmas fare (while I do recognise Turkey as US christmas fare, and do recognise the gourmet tradition as Dutch). There is no reference so it is a challenged unreferenced claim and MUST be deleted per verifiability policies. Arnoutf (talk) 21:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, this one  says: h ttp://dutch-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/christmas_in_the_netherlands Christmas Eve. For a main course at Christmas dinner, roast goose may be served, or turkey, or perhaps venison or rabbit.

This one says: These meals could include game meats, roast pork, fondues or gourmetten. Turkey is not part of the feast in Holland. Typical Dutch Christmas treats include: •	Kerstkransjes (Christmas wreath cookies) •	Kerststol (fruited Christmas loaf) •	Kerstkrans (a wreath shaped pastry decorated with glace fruits and filled with sweet almond paste) •	Banketstaaf or banketletters (pastry logs or letters filled with sweet almond paste) •	Jan Hagel cookies (a fragrant and flaky Christmas cookie) •	Speculaas (spiced cookies) •	Marzipan •	Advocaat

Now do the Dutch eat turkey or not?

Warrington (talk) 23:24, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

And here is another one saying: http://www.thehollandring.com/kerstfeest.htm Christmas in The Netherlands....

In present day Netherlands the Sinterklaas tradition is (still) stronger than the Christmas traditions, There are no set rules as regards the Christmas dinner, but game, roast pork or meat fondue are popular main dishes.

In my family ... a delicious breakfast with "Kerststol" (a fruit&almond-paste bread), "krentebolletjes" (current buns) and "roomboter" (real butter). Dinner start off with a chicken soup and a "pasteitje" (Vol-au-Vent filled with a roux) My mom would make a delicious "rollade" (rolled pork) with plenty of tasty "jus" (gravy) for the boiled potatoes... the veggies were usual carrots and peas. Dinner was finished off with a cup of coffee and some cake

Warrington (talk) 23:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the overarchig message of these sources is that there is not really a very specific christmas dinner tradition in the Netherlands. We do eat a special meal; which either involves luxury meat, or an lengthy on the table preparation (fondue, gourmet). Within these boundaries almost each luxury meat is a possibility.
 * I recognise all these (found) as options; but none as typically Dutch. Listing what you found I get to: Goose, Turkey, Venison, Rabbit, Not turkey, Game, Pork, Fondue.
 * Turkey can be eaten with Christmas; and is eaten much more than throughout the year, but it is not a widespread tradition compared to e.g. the US. So both are right. Turkey can be eaten; but in the light of all other meat options it is only a minority of all meats consumed.
 * Also, you may have noticed that all 3 sites list the dinner at the end, receiving little attention in their discussion. Also note that the (commercial) about.com source is probably the most reliable; the suite101.com uses sources, but these seem outdated (see comments on the page itself - and is blacklisted by Wikipedia !!) and the third site is more of a personal log. Arnoutf (talk) 10:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I used the about.com reference to rewrite the few lines. Other sources may of course result in further amendments. Arnoutf (talk) 12:21, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Content added strangely...
This was just added : "The modest and plain look of what is nowadays considered the traditional Dutch cuisine, appears to be the result of a fairly recent development. From the 17th century onward, the dishes of the wealthy consisted of a rich variety of fruits, cheeses, meat, wine, and nuts. The national cuisine became greatly impoverished when, at the turn of the 20th century, when a great number of girls were sent to a new school type, the Huishoudschool (household school), where young women were trained to become domestic servants and where lessons in cooking cheap and simple meals were a major part of the curriculum. ,"  but in a strange place. Please add it appropriately if needed. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Access to my account
I need to apologise, a young relative gained access to my account and edited the article, I apologise and promise it won't happen again. Mr George R. Allison (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC).

indo-dutch
where is the dutch-Indonesian cooking? dutch-east India company anyone? did an american write this article? Markthemac (talk) 16:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes I was expecting to see rijsttafel somewhere. I'll find some info and add it. 121.45.207.240 (talk) 04:37, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Dairy
in this passage:"The Dutch are famous for their dairy products (cow's milk) and especially for their cheeses." Does (cow's milk) really need to be there? Jbhf1 (talk) 01:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah odd that. I've removed it. Efficacious (talk) 05:58, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Kudos and suggestion
You guys deserve credit for a very good article. I'm an (American) foreigner living in Amsterdam for over 10 years. From what I can tell, the content of this article is excellent. I'm often asked by visitors what "Dutch Cuisine" is all about. Your article pretty much echoes what I've told them. As I'm in Amsterdam, however, my knowledge comes mostly through osmosis via popular culture and what's offered in the local cafés and shops. Sad to say, I don't live in a Dutch household, nor do I spend a lot of time with "oer Hollanders", but again, I can say this article confirms my outsider's knowledge.

One point of possible interest (perhaps a new topic): When my (mostly American) friends ask me about Dutch cuisine, it is often in the context of seeking a Dutch meal in a restaurant. I have found that I have to temper their expectations of "real" Dutch cooking with an explanation that most non-ethnic restaurants and eetcafes in Amsterdam serve a mostly French-inspired menu with some faint Dutch influences (maybe the presence of boerenkol or erwtensoep, and perhaps the inclusion of satay or some other colonial acquisition). I normally attribute this to my suspicion that the popular habit of dining out is a relatively new phenomenon in Dutch culture, and that the presumably French-trained Dutch chefs tended to regard "home cooking" as inappropriate to such an occasion. That other European countries present a comparatively richer, more pronounced and more luxurious native cuisine in their restaurants and cafés could also be related to the relatively small Dutch aristocracy's relatively weak influence on popular culture.

Is this something worth discussing? -- miltonBradley 13:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpoticha (talk • contribs)

Colonization & spice monopolies
What about more than 400 years of colonizing and shipping exotic spices all over the world? Even the most traditional stuff in Holland, say the speculaas cookies eaten around december, contains mostly exotic ingredients- and this is a very traditional old school cookie. Even the most smnall supermarket in rural Netherlands will have a vast Indonesian spice section

81.99.219.223 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC).

Dinner dishes.
Why no mention of bruine bonen met spek? Or was that just something peculiar to my family - we seemed to eat it all the time whenever I visited them as a child. Real winter comfort food - though oddly enough we mostly visited them in the summer, and we still ate plenty of it then :) I've never been able to find those brown beans in England, alas - does anyone know what kind of bean they are? --Kay Dekker (talk) 19:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Similar for me, please add (and Bartje - ik bid niet voor brune bon'n). Bruine bonen seems rather Dutch, Have a look at nl.wikipedia http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruine_bonen Arnoutf (talk) 21:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Historical diet needs more information.
Looking at paintings from the Dutch Golden Age, it seems to be a lot more than just bread and herring. A modesty "simple" theme, seems to be a bit overdone throughout the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seeionosphere (talk • contribs) 17:16, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Jenever in the southern Provinces
Jenever was a staple drink in the southern Provinces too, but the prohibition era in Belgium (which was limited to hard spirits and capped the alcohol content of beer and wine to 18%) reduced that. Interestingly that same prohibition gave rise to the high proof Belgian beers. 88.159.79.148 (talk) 13:05, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

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Worstenbrood recipe correction suggestion
Hello, I apologize in advance for not creating an account for this suggestion.

The correct recipe for brabants worstenbrood doesn't use ground beef, but a 50/50 mix of ground beef and ground pork.

Sources (in Dutch):
 * http://www.24kitchen.nl/recepten/brabantse-worstenbroodjes
 * https://www.koopmans.com/recept/brabantse-worstenbroodjes/
 * http://www.smulweb.nl/recepten/375658/Brabantse-worstenbroodjes
 * https://www.ah.nl/allerhande/recept/R-R457378/brabantse-worstenbroodjes
 * A lifetime of eating and making them (they're delicous). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:980:95D1:1:1058:6652:E787:A135 (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:51, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Heineken-Grolsch-Bavaria.jpg

less famous
the repeated use of the word famous for the food stuffs is weird and should be avoided — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C02:302:9700:7DF7:30B9:CC47:61CA (talk) 20:41, 19 October 2021 (UTC)