Talk:Dutch oven

Slang
My slang dictionary gives the following: (1920s) the mouth; (1920s) the smell of a bed in which someone has just farted; (1980s+ australia) an enclosed area/room filled with cannabis smoke.

I've never heard the fart usage in the UK, but that doesn't mean that it isn't used. Secretlondon 21:19, Oct 9, 2003 (UTC)


 * I imagine no one above the age of puberty hears it much, anywhere. It's probably not limited to America, if your slang dictionary specifies regions and fails to do so here. So it is as I thought! -- Someone else 21:25, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Dutch oven is a good wedding night prank too. I removed the ideal gas law comment. The inside of the body remains remarkably consistent in temperature, such that a hot blanket would not be able to be hot enough to cause a notable temperature change in the GI tract. It might for work for other reasons, so I left the surrounding comment. This page could use a disambiguation and a little cleanup. If I had time I'd do it. Superclear 19:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I know the dutch oven as when you're laying in bed, and fart under the blanket. Then pull the blanket over your head and possibly anyone who is in bed with you to catch the stench in all it's force.

I noticed the joke reference was removed. It is a well known joke in the US at least. However, the part about the ideal gas law is not true (see above) so that did deserve removal.Superclear 15:39, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The deletion of the farting under the covers definition of this word is part of a disturbing trend on wikipedia to try to ignore the fact that funny coloquial sayings or terms are indeed information, and have as much of a place on wikipedia as other obscure subject matters. User: DSturges 12:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Fully agree it's really unacceptable not to allow the farting reference. This use of the word is related to the original dutch oven, as the smell that comes out of the oven would be very bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ovadeg (talk • contribs) 13:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The fart definition is now on the disambiguation page. Note the date on the comment you were responding to. FiveRings (talk) 18:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

My god this wikipedia is lame. I put in a very nice line on the dutch oven. But somebody changed it to something written by a 80 year old. And they removed my line about the dutch oven also known as smoking weed in a car with friends with the windows up. They removed it because it couldnt be verified. I am from Holland we did it all the time. It's culture. How much prove do you need. We call it a dutch oven. But I guess no room for some nice trivia on wikipedia england.Eurocanna


 * Wikipedia isn't a dictionary. Take your farting jokes to wiktionary.  That's where etymology goes  Maustrauser 06:38, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Lame. It was trivia about a dutch oven. Whatever. User:Eurocanna

All of the slang definitions are at Dutch oven.--Srleffler 01:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Right. This article is specifically about the cooking item.  Note that each Wikipedia article is not meant to be an all-encompassing disambiguation page.  Wikipedia articles are not the same as dictionary articles  (see the policy).  --Anonyhole (talk) 23:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Request for disambiguity
OK, come one. I know what a "dutch oven" is, but can we be a little mature and move that defintion to another article, please? --Bushido Hacks 18:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Cooking usage
About the other meaning of the term: I came here ooking for info on "Dutch oven", but really, it's not clear what, exactly, makes that modern enameled dutch oven different from any iron pot? I understand the original term (a pot more or less buried in the coals), but the modern usage seems different and is just an alternate name for a stew pot?

Wether there really is a real difference today or not, I think it may be a good idea to clarify it in the article.


 * I'm stumped too. I've never heard a casserole confused with a Dutch oven, and I assume that is a regional term in some different region. -Will Beback 05:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe it's the thicker walls, tight-fitting lid, and cast iron construction (even if enamelled). While a casserole might look similar, they tend to be made of porcelean and not have lids (or lids that nearly seal).  Using one or the other can make an incredible difference when you cook.  The enamel just makes cleaning easier - you don't have to worry about special cooking and cleaning methods to keep the cure. Jordanmills 16:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "DUTCH OVEN", properly, refers to the combination of a cast iron cooking pot with integral cast in legs and a vertically flanged lid. (see the first photo in the main article) It is intended to be used in or out-of doors with embers or charcoal and not indoors on a range or burner.  The legs are provided to keep the bottom of the pot from making direct contact with the heat source thereby burning the contents and to provide a space for inserting or removing coals to regulate heat. The characteristic flange on the lid is to keep coals or embers from sliding off the top in order that the contents may be evenly heated from above and below simultaneously as in an oven.  By carefully regulating the quantity of coals, both above and below the dutch oven, increases or decreases of as little as 25 degrees f may be consistently maintained.  A dutch oven may also be used for wet cooking or frying in the same way as a stew pot, but its primary purpose is for dry-cooking, roasting or baking, hence the appellation "OVEN"


 * A "STEW POT", sometimes known as a casserole, on the other hand,is similar except that it has a flat bottom with no legs, and unlike a dutch oven, may be had with or without a lid (which is usually dome-shaped) and may be made from cast-iron, glass, ceramic or other material. It also lacks the legs and distinctive coal-retaining flange of a dutch oven. It is intended primarily for "wet-cooking" or frying on a stove, burner or suspended above a fire. It can also be used for baking with coals, but with very limited success.


 * The two are NOT the same, although it is easy to see how the confusion starts. Numerous cookbooks, written by authors and authorities who should know better, routinely call a cast iron stew pot a "dutch oven" and further compound the error by calling it a "WROUGHT-IRON dutch oven".  They are NOT "wrought" iron, they are "cast" iron.  WROUGHT IRON is a heated iron alloy which is shaped by mechanical means in a forge.  CAST IRON is molten iron which is poured into a pre-prepared mold in a liquid state.


 * I am frankly surprised that the original author of the article failed to mention these critical differences, and am equally surprised that he/she has not been "called" on it before now. Additionally, in reading the other posts regarding other utensils mentioned in the article, and in view of the apparently incomplete and questionable facts contained therein, I think that the original article should be removed and entirely re-written.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.204.162.236 (talk) 19:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Please see Webster - FiveRings (talk) 19:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Dutch?
What connection, if any, is there between Dutch ovens and the Netherlands? That is, why are they called Dutch ovens? --Rob Kennedy 04:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Move. —Wknight94 (talk) 20:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Dutch oven (cookware) → Dutch oven – revert previous move that did not have consensus. Srleffler 01:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~
 * Support--Srleffler 01:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support for reasons given previously --Rob Kennedy 01:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Support (obviously) FiveRings 01:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
I don't think this parenthetical page was necessary. The page was just fine at Dutch oven. At most, it could have had an otheruses template at the top of the page. But a disambiguation page is only useful if there are other pages about topics with the same name. Are there articles about Union College's newspaper, or rooms full of smoke? --Rob Kennedy 01:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Another editor removed the "other uses" section, and rather than put it back I created the disambiguation. There will no doubt eventually be other pages (if you build it, they will come). FiveRings 04:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * An "other uses" section would be inappropriate, because Wikipedia articles are about things not words. This article is about the cookware. Other uses of the phrase Dutch oven don't belong here. If they are suitable for Wikipedia, they need to either have their own article or be in an article where they fit topically. Note, though, that Wikipedia is not a dictionary. If there isn't much to say about a usage other than to give its definition, it does not belong here at all (not even on a disambig page), but rather belongs on Wiktionary.--Srleffler 01:12, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

That other editor was me. My main objection is not to the disambiguation page — I would have created it myself if I thought any of the other topics were worth it. Rather, my objection is with Dutch oven being a redirect to the disambiguation page rather than remaining as the main title of the article about cooking pots. Of all the other pages that link to Dutch oven, just one uses it in the "fart" meaning and one uses it in the as yet unmentioned "bisexual" meaning. That means all those links need to be fixed to go to the non-disambiguation page. (One links to Dutch oven furnace, which means it's now a double redirect.) When a term is overwhelmingly applied to one meaning over all other meanings, that primary meaning should be in the article with the unadorned title — there was really no need to create Dutch oven (cookware). Now, when people come to WP looking for information on Dutch ovens, they'll need to take a detour through the disambiguation page instead of going to the cooking article they were probably looking for. (If it's not what some of them were looking for, then that's what otheruses is for.) --Rob Kennedy 05:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

If you want to change it to be an "otheruses" link, that's fine. My concern was that the other information was not lost. FiveRings 17:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I changed Dutch oven to redirect back to the cookware page, and added a link (hand coded for the moment) on the cookware page to point to the disambiguation page. Wikipedia won't let me just move the page back because the dutch oven page already exists. Sorry. Suggestions? FiveRings
 * A move request has been placed. Add your support on the survey above. If there is strong consensus, the move may happen quickly, otherwise it will happen (or not) in about five days.--Srleffler 01:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fair use rationale for Image:Dutch oven red1.jpg
Image:Dutch oven red1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Boy scout version
Hi, if the dutch oven is official equipment of the Boy Scouts of America, shouldn't it link to a Boy Scouts site instead of the manufacturers? Also, according to WP:PSTS, shouldn't we be avoiding primary/secondary sources? --Kjoonlee 08:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Qozon
For some reason, Qozon redirects here. A Qozon is not the same as a Dutch Oven. They have completely different histories. YuliEuphemism (talk) 01:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

potjie
Is more like a kind of cauldron, not a dutch oven. Does is really belong here? (if it does, so does cauldron, tetsunabe, etc.)FiveRings (talk) 16:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If nobody objects, I'm going to move potjie back to the Potjiekos page. I don't think these are the same thing. FiveRings (talk) 18:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I moved the page, as the pot has its origins in the Dutch Oven. The move was tagged for discussion on the potije page before it was completed, without objection. You do not have consensus at the moment to revert this.   Socrates2008 ( Talk )   23:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I would like to see some evidence that the pot has its origins in the Dutch Oven. It is used like, and looks like, a cauldron. Did this discussion extend to the dutch oven page, or was it just on the potjie page? FiveRings (talk) 15:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Then take a read at South Africa's (Dutch) colonial history, as well as Google books which has some specific references to this. e.g. here   Socrates2008 ( Talk )   06:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In this case, Bedourie oven should also be integrated into this page, for consistency sake. FiveRings (talk) 05:01, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Dutchie
The dutchie refered to in the song 'pass the dutchie' was a cooking pot for poor jamaicans and NOT a reference to 'pot'. However due to the song being a remake of 'pass the kouchie' where kouchie was a direct reference to marijuana then dutchie is now being used as slang for 'pot' ''Unsigned comment by Jonnyscranch (talk) 21:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's see a reference for that please.  Socrates2008 ( Talk )   10:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_dutchie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonnyscranch (talk • contribs) 11:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Dutch oven and farting
Why does this keep getting taken out of the article? This is a well established and notable use of the terminology. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:55, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Because this article is about the COOKING POT. The fart definition is on the disambiguation page. (As noted in the edit comment, and at the top of this article). FiveRings (talk) 18:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, of course the term dutch oven, to fart on someone under covers, relates to cooking witht his type of pot and is based on those mechanics. I don't see what the big deal is, but now there's a separate article on it so I guess it doesn't ahve to be mentioned here although that would have been a lot simpler. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:56, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

merging Poyke
Poyke has minimal content, and was apparently written by someone who didn't know about the potjie section in this article. I propose merge and redirect. FiveRings (talk) 22:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Crickets.... 69.181.195.209 (talk) 22:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

"Doufeu" is not a real word.
The lead section says: "Another type of Dutch oven is the doufeu, as developed by Le Creuset. The doufeu has a concave lid, which is filled with ice during the cooking process."

There is no such word "doufeu" in English. And perhaps no such word in French. Many dictionaries here: http://www.onelook.com/?w=doufeu&ls=a It appears to be a branding(?) attempt by the French company Le Creuset. No other maker that I can find calls them a "doufeu."

I suggest those sentences either be removed or reworded and moved elsewhere as something like, The so-called self-basting dutch oven has a concave lid filled with ice, designed to drip condensed water back onto the cooking food. While this variation might deserve mention, certainly not in the lead, and certainly not the term "doufeu," nor the company.

There is also a wikipedia article "Doufeu" that I have argued there be deleted. (It was seemingly originally written as an ad for Le Creuset (I changed that yesterday.))

The generic object in question is a so-called self-basting Dutch oven. It has a concave lid which is filled with ice or cold water during the cooking process causing condensed water to form on dimples or spikes that drips onto the food (rather than say, to escape as steam). The manufacturers claim this is self-basting, improves flavor, and other claims. (Water is not a basting liquid?) definitions: baste …pour juices or melted fat over (meat) during cooking in order to keep it moist… def2 transitive verb - to moisten (as meat) at intervals with a liquid (as melted butter, fat, or pan drippings) especially during cooking —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.8.175 (talk) 19:49, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Millions of years?, really?
"Dutch ovens have been used as cooking vessels for literally millions of years." That paragraph in the main section is vandalism, isn´t it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.249.246.161 (talk) 15:27, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Animated image of potjie
replaced one of the images on the article for an animated picture. I changed it back, because larger file size of animated picture makes page slower to load (and on this occasion the animation does not add to the understanding of the article). According to WP:IUP, "Inline animations should be used sparingly".

If others disagree with my assessment, I am happy to stand corrected!

Exotropic Snail (talk) 08:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Thanks for the explanation. My personal opinion is, that wikipedia is extremely static compared to the direction the web is taking and having videos or animated images in articles is making the articles richer and less static. Other than that I made this gif specifically to spice up the article I don’t mind it not being there if this is the consensus ;-) Cheers,  Amada44   talk to me 08:34, 19 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, thank you for making the gif! Sorry that it wasn't (IMO) quite right this time :-) Again, I am only one person, so I am happy to admit that I may be wrong, but I know that animations can impact on accessibility for people with slow internet connections. Thanks, Exotropic Snail (talk) 09:10, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

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Per WP:V, removing uncited section "Enameled ovens"
I removed the section title "Enameled ovens" on 13 Jan due to the absence of any sources for this section -- this change was reverted the same day by Ɱ, with the comment "well find some citations! valid content, shouldn't be rewritten." However, this is incorrect. Per WP:V, "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source." At my discretion, I chose to remove the uncited section due to my belief that the claim "However, they lose some of the other advantages of bare cast iron. For example, deep frying is usually not recommended in enameled ovens; the enamel coating is not able to withstand high heat, and is best suited for water-based cooking" is unverifiable -- in fact, the care and use section of Le Creuset's website states "With the exception of Grills, the enamel surface is not ideal for dry cooking. Your choice of liquid, oil, fat or butter should completely cover the base before heating begins. Do not leave the pan unattended, and do not allow a pan to boil dry, as this may permanently damage the enamel. For deep frying, the maximum oil level must not exceed 1/3 full. This depth allows sufficient height above the oil for it to rise once foods are added. An oil frying thermometer should be used for safety, and a lid should be readily available in case of overheating or flaring."

It is my belief that, without this content, the section is too short to merit including as-is. Since it was removed for lack of citations, Ɱ was wrong to have restored it without providing an inline citation to a reliable source. As such, I am reverting the revert, and will refer Ɱ to this section for further discussion

Waidawut (talk) 22:18, 14 January 2019 (UTC)