Talk:Dutty Boukman

Needs expansion
There are lots of sources about this man; someone get with it.Wuapinmon (talk) 16:48, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Pact with the Devil
Pat Robertson didn't coin the term "Pact with the devil." It has been a myth woven into Haitian lore, probably by missionaries over the last 200 years. The Pat Robertson section should be separated from the "Pact with the Devil" comments, and given it's own merit for his repeating of this statement.

See God, Satan and the Birth of Haiti (2005) http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-10-05.shtml

um, lots of sources here... Google Search "Haiti pact with devil -Robertson" and you get a boat load. I'm going to add a section about people attributing that ceremony as a pact with the devil and mention Pat Robertson as a scandal about re-airing this sentiment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.227.246.8 (talk) 15:04, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Some more links..

1998 attempts by Christian missionaries to "break the contract" http://www.jesus.org.uk/dawn/1998/dawn9802.html

2004 "A History of Haiti and the Voodoo they do" http://www.thegreatseparation.com/newsfront/2004/02/a_history_of_ha.html

2004 controversial article about Haiti and their pact with pagan gods including satan. (apparently, it's a good part FUD such as the non-existant "iron pig" in the capital that commemorates the pact with the devil. http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=14079 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.227.246.8 (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Robertson's story sounds like a wild-eyed, nutty speculation. In my personal opinion, Robertson has gone off the deep end in the past, and this sounds like typical Robertson.

But there is irony in this page focusing criticism on Robertson for his statement while at the same time (and previously) reporting almost all of the same story as historical fact. This website reports the gathering in the Bois Caïman, the slaughtering of a pig and the taking of an oath. Only the details of the oath were left out of this site's account.

So is the entire account unverified legend and improperly stated as factual history by Wiki? Is part of it true and the "Satan" part false, or is it all true?

I don't have the answer, but this page needs to separate fact from fiction. I find it highly ironic that the page focuses criticism on Robertson while elsewhere on the same page reporting virtually all of Robertson's account as historical fact, instead of fiction or speculation. 66.82.9.59 (talk) 21:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you know of any historian who disputes that the ceremony took place at all?--87.162.45.214 (talk) 06:12, 17 January 2010 (UTC)


 * No one disputes that a ceremony took place. It's part of Haiti's national self-identification -- the equivalent to the Boston Tea Party for the U.S.  It involved Voudoun ritual practices, which were and are important to the spiritual life of many Haitians.  To some Christians inside and outside Haiti, Voudoun seems like devil worship, but that's almost certianly not how the people who participated in the ceremony understood it.  More good info on this Salon.com article. --Jfruh (talk) 18:34, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

It appears that Robertson is not the first one to allege a "pact with the devil" since a variety of Christian sources pre-dating Robertson's remarks allege this. In any case, what matters is whether the material is reliably sourced. If yes, generally it goes in, if not, generally it stays out. On that count, several references for reactions to Robertson cite Twitter and/or blogs which is not generally acceptable by Wiki guidelines. The reactions to Robertson are also arguably off-topic for this historical biography.Brian Dell (talk) 08:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Boukman Dutty
The title of the article is wrong, you seem to have reversed his name it is actually Boukman Dutty. --Xero (talk) 15:59, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120722160838/http://www.lai.su.se/gallery/bilagor/SRoLAS_No4_6.%20%E2%80%9DOur%20Government%20is%20in.pdf to http://www.lai.su.se/gallery/bilagor/SRoLAS_No4_6.%20%E2%80%9DOur%20Government%20is%20in.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070826170155/http://www.ci.miami.fl.us/haiti2004/history.htm to http://www.ci.miami.fl.us/haiti2004/history.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100121151214/http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10010104.htm to http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10010104.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060823071436/http://www.thelouvertureproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Boukman to http://thelouvertureproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Boukman
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070826170155/http://www.ci.miami.fl.us/haiti2004/history.htm to http://www.ci.miami.fl.us/haiti2004/history.htm

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"Man of the book"
The article states that His French name came from his English nickname, "Book Man," which some scholars, despite accounts suggesting that he was a Vodou houngan, have interpreted as meaning that he was a Muslim, since in many Muslim regions the term "man of the book" is a synonym for an adherent of the Islamic faith - but our article on People of the book seems to make it clear that this term refers not to Muslims, but practitioners of other faiths... 2602:306:CFEA:170:B518:3481:1A12:3D58 (talk) 16:45, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to delete section - Controversy over his origins
This section was flagged almost a year ago and doesn't appear to have undergone improvement. All the citations are from a single author, and come from a website that seems dedicated to conspiracy theories or fringe theories regarding the Haitian revolution. Given that there is no other source establishing that there even IS a controversy over the origins of Dutty Boukman, I would propose that this whole section be deleted unless more reliable sources can be found that show this is a topic worthy of its own section. Secondus2 (talk) 16:13, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. The section is poorly written and gives disproportionate weight to a (not overly coherent) fringe view. Furius (talk) 18:49, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, I cut it. IrishStephen (talk) 15:16, 11 February 2023 (UTC)