Talk:EMD F40PH

Comments
Suggest changing the main article image. AMTK 406 is not a true F40PH, but an NPCU (Non-Powered Control Unit) in an F40 shell.

Doesn't the NCTD Coaster use the F40PH? NCTD isn't included in the owners section.

F40PH designed for Amtrak EMD then offered them to other railroads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.250.67.99 (talk) 04:23, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

This video explains everthing that is so cool about this locomotive... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU1_L5ww3og --68.52.147.138 (talk) 03:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

what's so fun about this train? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.210.67.113 (talk) 04:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Except for the evidence presented by the pictures, the article would lead the reader to believe this locomotive was designed EXCLUSIVELY for, and used EXCLUSIVELY by Amtrak, with NO OTHER users......Wuhwuzdat (talk) 15:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this article is way to Amtrak-centric. These are actually pretty common locomotives on various commuter systems, used by, just off the top of my head, the MBTA, Metro-North, NJ Transit, AMT, and Metra. Some mention of these agencies fleets, and the changes made to them would be a good addition. Alas, I don't know enough to make detailed changes to the article, but woulduch appreciate if someone with such (citable) knowledge could add it to the article.oknazevad (talk) 05:45, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe Amtrak's initial order for F40PH's had absolutely nothing to do with the SDP40F issues. They were always intended for short haul service.  It was later that it was decided to use them everywhere and eventually, junk most SDP's and reuse major components for F40's.Filmteknik (talk) 04:36, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Retired vs. being active on railroads
Why did they had to retired the EMD F40PHs? I wish they never retired it in the first place. EMD F40PH is my favorite best locomotive ever than the GE P42DC locomotives. Are we going to bring back the EMD F40PHs? Why did it retired the F40PH locomotives in 2003? What was the reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.255.52.184 (talk) 12:35, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Design flaws
While McDonnell does discuss the location of the fuel tank relative to the battery box and air reservoir, the NTSB report does not single out this design choice as a contributing factor. Rather, the NTSB discusses the crashworthiness of fuel tanks in general, and makes no specific recommendations concerning the F40PH. I'm removing the section absent a source which makes this connection. Mackensen (talk) 20:03, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Rebuilds
I'm unsure whether the M-K/MPI rebuilds should be discussed in this article (or counted as F40PHs for the purposes of tabulation). Of the two journal articles that this article is primarily drawn from, Holland doesn't discuss the rebuilds at all. Graham-White and Weil do, and include the rebuilds in their count, but the article was published in 1999. If MPI "built" additional locomotives after 1998 we need a source for it. Mackensen (talk) 12:32, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Accidents and incidents
Have any of the class been involved in an accident or incident? Mjroots (talk) 18:35, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The 1996 Maryland train collision comes to mind. It was mentioned in earlier version of the article (see above). There was also the 1990 Back Bay, Massachusetts train collision. I don't know that the article would gain from a discussion of these incidents; the locomotive's design wasn't a contributing factor in either accident. Mackensen (talk) 22:32, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It doesn't need to be, but for completeness, there should be an accidents and incidents section. This is common across many locomotive class articles. Mjroots (talk) 13:14, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * If the section could be written as a prose summary, in the manner of Boeing 747, then that might be a useful addition. I don't know if there are sufficient sources for that. I think a trivia-style list of accidents would detract from the article. Mackensen (talk) 14:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

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"The most modern locomotives remained in private hands to operate the various commuter services which, by law, did not pass to Amtrak."
Such as?

It wasn't the case for Santa Fe's and Milwaukee Road's FP45's, for Santa Fe's U28CG & U30CG fleets, for any of the 35 SDP35's delivered to 4 customers, or for the Great Northern's SDP40's and SDP45's.

For 2nd generation diesel power delivered pre-Amtrak that were purchased with the intention of being used at the head of intercity passenger trains, I'm skeptical that anything except for Southern Pacific's SDP45's ever coupled onto a commuter train regularly in the United States after Amtrak's formation.

Instead, they moved to freight service and in some instances like Santa Fe's FP45's and Southern Pacific's SDP45's, saw semi-regular use between freight assignments as business train power, handled special passenger moves, and even as protection power for Amtrak services.


 * You're right, and the source (Holland) made the point that these units were in used for both freight and commuter operation. Mackensen (talk) 20:20, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Panama Canal usage
I agree that we shouldn't cover the disposition of every locomotive, but I think the detail that the HEP powers the container refrigeration (that detail wasn't in the news blurb but it's in the older Trains article) makes it worth including in the body, though not in the lede. Mackensen (talk) 16:05, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason why it can't be briefly mentioned in the body of the article. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 16:18, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Built from components
@GeorgR (de): somewhere with this edit the article got confused about which Solomon is the source. Do you still have access to North American Locomotives: A Railroad-by-Railroad Photohistory, and is it the correct source for footnotes 35 and 36 (The MBTA's dozen F40PHM-2C locomotives were built new using EMD components, as were the six F40PH-3 locomotives of the Altamont Commuter Express)? Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 03:12, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, good catch. Footnote 35 was referring to the wrong book after that edit; it actually cites the 2012 book. I have edited the article accordingly now. Footnote 36 is correctly referencing 2016's book. GeorgR (de) (talk) 15:56, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Owners
In general, the practice for articles on US locomotives is to list the original owners only, and not to maintain an ongoing list of current and former owners. Such rosters move into trivial territory, and can be difficult to source reliably. Mackensen (talk) 02:25, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * An idea that could taken to Australia actually, thanks for the idea! Fork99 (talk) 02:27, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That doesn't preclude discussing secondary usage in the text of course. Mackensen (talk) 02:38, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes of course, as long as it's properly referenced and everything. Fork99 (talk) 02:40, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The issue is, we end up with things like this insanity if rosters are not kept in check. Ralifans tend to be allergic to references, especially when we specify that railfan forums and picture hosting websites don't count. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:22, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I really don't think we should be including all current and former owners, as that will spiral out of hand rather quickly. This isn't like art, where provenance of a locomotive is absolutely worth mentioning (or even well-documented). – Epicgenius (talk) 23:47, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree entirely. Articles should be encyclopedic for general users rather than being exhaustive information designed specifically for rail fanning. Graywalls (talk) 00:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * If there is significant coverage of secondhand owners (Panama Canal Railway comes to mind and is indeed already mentioned), I see no reason we cannot mention it briefly. But again, this is if and only if there is reliable coverage to establish as much. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:08, 11 July 2023 (UTC)


 * How is having the destination of each unit serial # of train cars encyclopedic rather than information clutter than keeping tag on where each VIN of 63 units of Lamborghini Sián FKP 37 went from the factory? Graywalls (talk) 19:08, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll repeat myself from Talk:EMD F7; the road number is not the serial number, and it's not a VIN, it's a visible designation issued by the current owner useful for identifying a vehicle, even from a distance. Also, unlike a VIN, reliable sources publish this information. This has been discussed any number of times at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways. If you think the consensus is wrong you should raise a more general discussion rather than going around to every locomotive talk page. Mackensen (talk) 22:29, 12 July 2023 (UTC)