Talk:ENTJ

Type Descriptions
I just deleted the descriptions on all of these personality types. A lot of them were copyvios from different sources, several of them being from http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/, where they may or may not have been copied from other locations. Nonetheless, the three theories of MBTI, Keirsey Temperaments, and Socionics are quite different and require different descriptions of types, functions, relations, and other concepts. Socionics especially differs from the other two. The three theories should all be expanded upon in Wikipedia, but it is impossible to do this while there is a conglomeration of these three theories and they are treated as one and the same. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 01:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Personality Traits
Unless some citation or explanation is provided for the three unscourced personality traits, I am probably going to delete them on the grounds that these are subjective, unverifiable, and in need of some citation. For now I will just put down "citation needed." --71.103.166.144 03:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Valerie Plame Wilson
In her keynote presentation to College Media Advisers '08, Valerie Plame Wilson said her CIA job application involved a Myers-Briggs personality test, revealing she was "off the charts" as an ENTJ. If someone can write up a citation for this and include it ... 128.113.242.136 (talk) 19:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I never heard anything to suggest "off the charts", but I do remember that (like most field agents) she was classified as ENTJ AVKent882 (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Notable ENTJs
I strongly recommend that this section be deleted. The information may be fun, but it has no place in an encyclopedia. There's no factual basis for the claim that Napoleon, for example, was an ENTJ. Such unscientific speculation is fodder for skeptics. It screams 'pop psyschology' and casts doubt on the integrity of the entire system. A link to the Keirsey site would make the information available to interested readers without undermining the validity of this article. ThreeOfCups (talk) 02:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Moved list to Fieldmarshal article and added reference. ThreeOfCups (talk) 02:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, Jesus Christ was listed as an ENTJ. That may well be, but the reference cited does not list anyone by the name of Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazereth. --Thomasdelbert (talk) 03:14, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Removed. ThreeOfCups (talk) 23:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I also object to the picture of Margaret Thatcher. It would be one thing if she were actually known/proven to be "ENTJ" - it's just silly, at best, to have a picture of her when there should be one available of a known/proven "ENTJ"! FlaviaR (talk) 08:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I reworded the caption to remove speculation about type and focus instead on personality traits. If you have a reliable source that cites a well-known person who has confirmed being an ENTJ, please don't hesitate to add it. ThreeOfCups (talk) 23:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I strongly recommend to keep this section because it is excellent to learn about famous people

Notable ENTJs to add


 * Erwin Rommel German Field Marshal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 08:11, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Zbigniew Brzezinski 10th United States National Security Advisor, strategist -strategist of the cold war era (we can be really happy thet it did not end up in an atomic war)
 * Joseph Stalin 1st General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Unio - ruthless dictator, his son was captured during the war by the Germans, He did not care and continued fighting the war. Ruthlessly deported millions to the gulags.
 * Bernard Montgomery 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein - Who never gives up whatever happens
 * George S. Patton United States Army office - very ruthless general
 * Joseph Goebbels Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany - harcore propagandist (unfortunatelly)
 * Sergey Lavrov Foreign Minister of Russia - hardcore strategist thinking - smart and intelligent
 * Rahm Emanuel 23rd White House Chief of Staff - hardcore strategist thinker -(probably one of the most poverful person on earth today) He is a really really hardcore person.
 * Sigourney Weaver American actress - demonstrates strategic thinking in each of her movies - Not everyone is able to outsmart and alien. :)
 * Jim Carrey Canadian-American actor and comedian - (very weird sarcastic humor) very smart.
 * Margaret Thatcher strategic thinker
 * Harry S. Truman 33rd President of the United States, decision to use nuclear weapons against Japan, ruthless president of the cold war era.
 * Vivien Leigh English actress - Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind (ESTP?, ESFP?)
 * Liz Hurley English model and actress (ESFJ?)
 * Catherine Zeta Jones Welsh actress, currently based in the United States
 * John Cleese Academy Award-nominated English actor - responsible for the sketch show Monty Python's Flying Circus and the four Monty Python films —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 08:03, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Elisabetta Canalis Italian model and actress —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 08:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Dogbert Dilbert's anthropomorphic pet dog from the Dilbert comic strip  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 08:39, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Catbert Catbert is a fictional cat, and the "evil director of human resources" in the Dilbert comic strip —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 08:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Autopilot of the Axiom in the film WALL-E]
 * EVE in film WALL-E] (Extraterrestrial Vegetation Evaluator), a sleek, state-of-the-art robotic probe whose main function is to locate vegetation on Earth to verify its habitability. She is initially a cold and hostile robot who is only concerned with her mission but does display basic emotions. However, when she opens up to WALL-E she learns to convey her emotions and eventually to understand his deep feelings for her, becoming more humane and considerate and finally reciprocating WALL-E's love.
 * Kathryn Bigelow American film director, won the 2010 Academy Award for Best Picture —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.78.188.152 (talk) 08:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Alice (Dilbert character) engineer from the Dilbert comic strip, Alice is rarely rewarded for her hard work, although she was for a time the highest paid engineer in the company. At another time she was feted for receiving her seventeenth patent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.142.251 (talk) 10:13, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Paul Jay (Canada), CEO and Senior Editor of TRNN - The Real News Network
 * Teri Hatcher American actress, As an undergraduate she studied mathematics and engineering. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.76.245.38 (talk) 20:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

All of these famous people on this list were(are) excellent (sometimes ruthless) strategists. These are the people who are practicall "unable" to give up fighting in any conflict situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.162.108 (talk) 14:48, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Napoleon was an ENTP and not an ENTJ!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.162.108 (talk) 14:43, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Steve Jobs is not an ENTJ but an ENTP. He is an entrepreneur who failed and recovered during his carrier several times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.162.108 (talk) 14:46, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

"Also, Jesus Christ was listed as an ENTJ." He is an ENFJ a teacher type. He Definitelly was not a ruthless strategic thinker like many of the ENTJs.


 * Moved this section under Characteristics and  used only Keirsey examples.  Keirsey's theory is based on behavior, which  is observable, while the  MBTI is based on cognitive functions, that is,  how people prefer to use  their minds. It is unethical for MBTI  practitioners to speculate about  a person's type according to the  principle of "own best fit."  Moreover, MBTI practitioner websites are  grossly inconsistent in their  conclusions. This sort of unencyclopedic  speculation has no place on  Wikipedia. (The contention over the MBTI type of Jesus of Nazareth is a perfect example of how inappropriate this guessing game is for an encyclopedia.) ThreeOfCups (talk) 20:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * How did Jim Carrey and Teri Hatcher get classified as ENTJ? I could possibly understand Cleese as he's a more forceful personality -- but how did this get verified? AVKent882 (talk) 12:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

While I agree that notable people can serve as useful examples of a type, any of us who has read Jung-inspired speculation online over the last few years knows of the long, unverified and often plainly erroneous lists of celebrities. For example, having read Margaret Thatcher's autobiography, The Path to Power, I have very little doubt that she is instead an ESTJ; in spite of Thatcher's now-long association with the ENTJ type, mostly care of David Keirsey's popular material. Naming individuals is problematic and should be done sparingly. Mubaldi (talk) 21:07, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Templates
I created templates for text that's the same across all 16 type articles to eliminate the hours of work it takes to update the same text 16 times. This is a recommended use for templates according to Wikipedia policy WM:TEMP.

To edit the templates: 1. Click the Edit link on the section of the article you want to change. 2. Select and copy the title of the template page (the text between the double braces). 3. Paste the copied text into the Wikipedia search box and press Go (not Search). This will take you to the template. Make sure that the changes you make to the templates are appropriate for all 16 type articles! (INFJ, ESTP, etc.) ThreeOfCups (talk) 03:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Spelling of Extraversion
The MBTI, Keirsey Temperament Sorter, and related Jung Typology assessments use the original spelling, Extraversion, rather than the modern corruption, Extroversion. In this context, Extraversion is jargon and should be thus spelled. ThreeOfCups (talk) 15:07, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Logo and border color
For a discussion about the logo and border color, see Talk:Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. Please don't make a significant change to the logo or border color without discussing it there first. ThreeOfCups (talk) 19:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
The page is in dire need of a cleanup. Parts have very repetetive language, and a lot of it uses excessively informal and opinionated speech ("It's no wonder ENTJ's are loved and valued by everyone."). I think a lot of it is copy-pasted from less formal articles.

I'll try and corrext some of it now. But I haven't really done this before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.195.14.107 (talk) 04:46, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Question for administrator
There has been significant activity by one user on this page over the past several days which has significantly impoverished the quality of the page and surely breaks many Wikipedia guidelines. Besides including unimportant or unsubstantiated information, this content is replete with grammatical errors. I am not experienced with how to address this sort of activity, which I do not believe is malicious. I simply want to reach out to someone who is competent and capable of reverting these edits and perhaps speaking to the editor directly. Thank you. --CallidusUlixes (talk) 16:27, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I reverted the changes, as they were unsourced. There are a few places where one can ask for assistance on Wikipedia, but probably the best place to go in a situation like this is a relevant WikiProject, forums where one can discuss issues related to a topic on Wikipedia.  They're generally listed at the top of a talk page, and you can see here that this article has been tagged as part of WikiProject Psychology.  Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Psychology would be a good place, then, to ask for help if you run into trouble on this page in the future.  Wikipedia's help desk can probably help direct you to a better place if you can't figure it out.  The Teahouse, a forum for new users, may also be useful if you have questions about how to use Wikipedia or get around it's bureaucracy.  Of course, you can also contact an administrator for help should you feel lost. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:05, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Reduce to one article
The other recreational pseudo-psychology systems Socionics and Enneagram of Personality have only a single article. In the meantime it would be beneficial to remove the references of "notable persons of this personality type" seeing as the Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator is make-believe. 104.228.101.152 (talk) 02:11, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Myers–Briggs Type Indicator
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Myers–Briggs Type Indicator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:19, 13 April 2020 (UTC)