Talk:ENTP

Comments made without a heading
Why am I not surprised that this page remains thin while, say, INTJ has pages of lengthy commentary? Could it be that we all are intending to flesh it out extensively, but none of us has gotten around to it yet? -leigh (&#966;&#952;&#8057;&#947;&#947;&#959;&#962;) 17:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * see my comment below. the INTJ description was a copyvio anyway. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 01:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Here as in life the other 95% of the world do not appreciate the ENTP, we seem to be to much for others to understand, but that's OK, we know and are confident in our ENTP orientation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.110.85.124 (talk) 20:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The nomination for deletion had nothing to do with ENTPs specifically. All the MBTI personality type articles were nominated for deletion; however, they've been considerably improved since then. ThreeOfCups (talk) 03:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Type Descriptions
I just deleted the descriptions on all of these personality types. A lot of them were copyvios from different sources, several of them being from http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/, where they may or may not have been copied from other locations. Nonetheless, the three theories of MBTI, Keirsey Temperaments, and Socionics are quite different and require different descriptions of types, functions, relations, and other concepts. Socionics especially differs from the other two. The three theories should all be expanded upon in Wikipedia, but it is impossible to do this while there is a conglomeration of these three theories and they are treated as one and the same. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 01:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

We ENTPs were going to finish editing the page, but got distracted.


 * I'm not sure it's quite accurate to say, "More so than other types, ENTPs can 'think outside the box' and come up with fresh, unexpected solutions to difficult problems." All four types with dominant intuition excel at creative problem solving. The difference is in what they apply their creative problem solving to.  For instance, INFJs are likely to be better than ENTPs at helping individuals solve personal problems. So I removed the phrase "More so than other types" for now, until someone can better define in what arena of problem-solving ENTPs are better than the other types.  (BTW, I didn't edit this article as drastically as the diff would seem to indicate. I mainly moved things around and removed a few "very"s and "incredibly"s. Intensifiers like that tend to weaken text anyway.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThreeOfCups (talk • contribs) 15:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Links
I was looking at the links, and typetango is a dating site. I'm not familiar with the rules, so if this is actually innapropriate, someone might want to delete that.

MBTI Types
These pages are pretty low-quality. Would be nice if all the types followed the same structure and had the same amount of detail. INTJ/INTP are huge, whereas this one and many others have hardly anything at all (as previously stated). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.84.136.2 (talk) 02:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm working on making these pages more consistent. As you might expect, however, each article seems to be edited most by people who fall under that type or a similar one. This means that the focus of the INTP page, for example, is completely different than the ESFP page. There's value in each of these approaches, so perfect consistency may not be a reasonable goal. If the character of the article reflects the character of the type to a certain degree, I'm not sure that's a bad thing. ThreeOfCups (talk) 15:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

explain
someone explain why my additions have been deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Red aries (talk • contribs) 13:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Red aries. I reverted the changes because you did not supply a verifiable, reliable source for the ENTPs you added to the list. If you look in the history, there were some edits that removed names as "suspect" because they were not listed at Keirsey. I took the time to compile the current list with references (sometimes multiple references) for each name. If you know where you read that Mao Zedong and Julius Ceasar were ENTPs I'd be happy to help you format the reference. If you have any questions feel free to contact me on my talk page. MoodyGroove (talk) 13:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)MoodyGroove

However, lol
I like how the paragraph following the heading "ENTP Profile" begins at least four sentences with the word "however." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.73.38 (talk) 01:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Notable ENTPs
I strongly recommend that this section be deleted. The information may be fun, but it has no place in an encyclopedia. There's no factual basis for the claim that Alexander the Great, for example, was an ENTP. Such unscientific speculation is fodder for skeptics. It screams 'pop psyschology' and casts doubt on the integrity of the entire system. A link to the Keirsey site would make the information available to interested readers without undermining the validity of this article. ThreeOfCups (talk) 02:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Another option would be to follow the lead of the ESTP article. That article lists famous ESTPs as a single sentence, including the most illustrustrative examples: "According to Keirsey, based on observations of behavior, famous Promoters include John F. Kennedy, Teddy Roosevelt, Madonna, and Donald Trump." Even if I knew nothing else about ESTPs, I could develop a clear picture of that personality type based on those four individuals. The long list used in this article has the opposite effect: it's more information than I need, and in fact muddies my comprehension of the type. A list that included just Alexander the Great, Walt Disney, Thomas Edison, and Ben Franklin would be useful to readers. This clearinghouse of individuals that may or may not be ENTPs (you'll notice, for example, that Teddy Roosevelt is on both the ENTP and ESTP lists) seems to serve only the editors who posted the examples. ThreeOfCups (talk) 16:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree entirely with ThreeOfCups. Compiling a list of "Notable ENTPs" is mere guesswork, and assignments made by different observers can vary widely, making suspect their educational value. This is especially true of historical examples such as Alexander the Great. --Halcatalyst (talk) 01:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In addition to the above suggestion, I'm thinking of moving the long list of "Notable ENTPs" to the Inventor article, then referencing it here. That way the information will still be available to those who are interested. The list is far more appropriate in the article for the Keirsey type than in the one for the MB type.  ThreeOfCups (talk) 03:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Only some of the names are referenced by Keirsey. If there is going to be a list (and I don't have a problem with it as long as it's sourced) then it should be here. MoodyGroove (talk) 17:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)MoodyGroove


 * The problem with having it here is that this kind of speculation violates the M-B ethical principles. However, it's in keeping with Keirsey's temperament theory, which is based on behavior rather than cognitive functions. Since articles exist for both expressions of the type, I think we should take advantage of the differences between the two theories and place this information where it fits most organically. ThreeOfCups (talk) 01:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone else deleted this section from this article, so I added it to the Inventor (Role Variant) article. ThreeOfCups (talk) 22:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Steve Jobs Chairman and CEO, Apple Inc -failed several times and recovered from the failures
 * George Clooney American actor, film director, producer, and screenwriter - popular person who can deal with complex issues
 * Michael Douglas American actor and producer, primarily in movies and television,
 * Lloyd Blankfein Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of Goldman Sachs
 * Matt Taibbi American journalist - skillful writer who is able to communicate complex issues with the public
 * Vladimir Putin Prime Minister of Russia - former secret agent officer!! can deal with complex issues - no sign of megalomany (That is good)
 * Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev 3rd President of Russia - skillful politican, popular, quiet, and lovable person, (may be ESTJ)
 * Michael Schumacher seven-time Formula One World Drivers' Champion - ingenious driver - has very good moral values
 * Napoleon Bonaparte military and political leader of France - has failed the russian campaign, displayed signs of megalomany - his solders have loved him and died for him.
 * Mahmoud Ahmadinejad President of Iran - Popular politican of Iran (he has not failed morally yet. :) Who knows what comes in the future?? Unfortunatelly he is not as strong as he thinks of himself.
 * J. Robert Oppenheimer American theoretical physicist, thinker and inventor type, director of the Manhattan Project, "The Father of the Atomic Bomb"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.162.108 (talk) 16:02, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Erich Hartmann highest-scoring fighter ace in the history of aerial warfare, ingenious fighter pilot
 * Yuri Alekseyevich Gagarin first human in outer space and the first to orbit the Earth, extrovert, thinker, intuitive, perceptive.
 * Clark Gable American film actor, observer-gunner in B-17 Flying Fortresses bomber during World War II
 * Asok (Dilbert character) an Indian intern in the Dilbert comic strip, a brilliant graduate from the Indian Institute of Technology, Asok often solves difficult problems in a few keystrokes, but he is still naïve to the cruelties and politics of the business world. As a result, he often ends up being the scapegoat for his coworkers' antics.
 * Leonardo DiCaprio American actor and film producer
 * Howard Hughes American aviator, engineer, industrialist, film producer, film director, philanthropist, and one of the wealthiest people in the world —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 09:44, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Nicolas Sarkozy the 23rd and current President of the French Republic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.223.59 (talk) 11:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Captain B. McCrea, the sole commander of the Axiom in film WALL-E. Throughout his duties as captain, he is bogged down by daily routines and boredom. Meeting WALL-E, however, has sparked his interest in Earth, and he becomes enthusiastically engrossed in researching the home he never knew before, ultimately paving the way for a more dynamic leadership role.
 * Eric Cartman a fictional character on the American animated television series South Park —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.192.213 (talk) 19:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Dale Carnegie an American writer and lecturer and the developer of famous courses in self-improvement, salesmanship, corporate training, public speaking and interpersonal skills.

People on this list have been failed during their carrier and many times they were able to recover from the failure. Some of them displays the negativ characteristics of ENTPs such as over-confidence, megalomany. Sometimes loosing moral values. All of these people has some kind of talent or unuque skill that helped them to rise up from the society. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.162.108 (talk) 14:53, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sherlock Holmes (2009 film) is a 2009 action mystery film based on the character of the same name created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes often pictured as ENTJ type. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.76.163.34 (talk) 13:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

These people with high moral values are very important players in the society. When the moral moral values are lost or under stress situation they can collapse.

I would like to point out that Steven Spielberg is not an ENTP but rather an ISFP. Slightly introvert, sensing, not a rational, cooperative with others etc. Could someone correct this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.79.162.108 (talk) 16:51, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Tom Hanks is an ESTJ not an ENTP. Excellent actor but no invetions, technical skills or entrepreniour ideas. Straight body posture. high self esteem, but not strategic thinker like INTJs. This should be corrected.

Templates
I created templates for text that's the same across all 16 type articles to eliminate the hours of work it takes to update the same text 16 times. This is a recommended use for templates according to Wikipedia policy WM:TEMP.

To edit the templates: 1. Click the Edit link on the section of the article you want to change. 2. Select and copy the title of the template page (the text between the double braces). 3. Paste the copied text into the Wikipedia search box and press Go (not Search). This will take you to the template. Make sure that the changes you make to the templates are appropriate for all 16 type articles! (INFJ, ESTP, etc.) ThreeOfCups (talk) 03:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Spelling of Extraversion
The MBTI, Keirsey Temperament Sorter, and related Jung Typology assessments use the original spelling, Extraversion, rather than the modern corruption, Extroversion. In this context, Extraversion is jargon and should be thus spelled. ThreeOfCups (talk) 15:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Logo and border color
For a discussion about the logo and border color, see Talk:Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. Please don't make a significant change to the logo or border color without discussing it there first. ThreeOfCups (talk) 19:33, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Famous ENTPs
I would like to edit the list of famous ENTPs. I believe Mao zedong is one of the famous entps and would like to add him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Red aries (talk • contribs) 09:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it isn't enough that you believe it. You also need to provide a reliable, verifiable source for any information that you contribute to Wikipedia. See WP:CITE. ThreeOfCups (talk) 01:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

How do you cite sources, and what do u mean by reliable verifiable source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Red aries (talk • contribs) 14:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Vague sentence removed
I removed the following sentence for being vague and perplexing in context, where it appeared at the end of Meyers-Briggs description: "An ENTP could consider everything above to be only one's personal interpretation." Does "everything above" refer to the standard ENTP description as provided in the article? Or does it also include the entire MBTI assessment system? Since the sentence follows a fairly detailed and multifaceted description, it would help to be more specific about what in particular is problematic. The phrasing "one's personal interpretation" is odd, since I understand the MBTI types to be group consensus of psychology researchers—not one individual's personal interpretation (interpretation of what data?? whose interpretation??). And the beginning of the sentence, "An ENTP could consider..." — why would this opinion be limited to being that of "an ENTP" and not other interested/informed parties? This is an opinion provided with weak attribution (the webpage provided as a source appears to be a sales website and not a scientific resource) and therefore would be a No Opinion issue. The sentence could be rewritten and expanded to state specifically which parties make specifically which criticisms of the standard MBTI description, if that is the intended meaning. Depaderico (talk) 07:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Reduce to one article
The other recreational pseudo-psychology systems Socionics and Enneagram of Personality have only a single article. In the meantime it would be beneficial to remove the references of "notable persons of this personality type" seeing as the Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator is make-believe. 104.228.101.152 (talk) 02:12, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Myers–Briggs Type Indicator
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Myers–Briggs Type Indicator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:18, 13 April 2020 (UTC)