Talk:Eagle (heraldry)

Discuss before deleting or changing other peoples' work
Thank you for your contibution to Eagle Heraldry that I developed from scratch, using other published documentation. I know it is not your intention to appear as a vandal but please discuss your changes that you suggest in the talk section before getting into reversal mathches on others' work. In the subject matter of druid=celtic=kelts=gaul symbology using Eagle, it is well known that Druids /kelts /gauls used it as one of the four elementary signs of zodiac along with the lion, bull and spirit (man) since the time of St Paul in Anatolia and in Inishowen much before than which later got into Celtic christianity and all illumination work since then. And yet, I may be wrong and would like to find out more. Please discuss and I would love to learn further from you. Until this takes place, please do not revert. Thanks.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mon_Vier"

Francoist?
The eagle was (if I remember right) long used by the kings of Aragon as a symbol of Saint John the Evangelist, so calling the item shown "Francoist" is misleading. (Though it's interesting that the Bourbon inescutcheon is missing.) &mdash;Tamfang 23:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Randroide 09:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC) Tamfang also wrote (and later erased, see history) this question: What's distinctively "Francoist" about the item shown, other than that it was (I infer) carved during Franco's rule and in the style of the time?

Your vexillological knowledge is much better than mine, Tamfang, and, for reasons I can not understand, you erased a very good question. But I live in Spain, so I am able to give you complementary information.

Yes. I did my homework and you are right: This shield was based in the shield first used by Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castile.

And yes, I knew it is the John the Evangelist eagle. I even added the shield to the John´s category.

The "Francoist" alegation is based in this arguments:


 * The eagle was reintroduced in spanish heraldry by Franco himself in february 2th 1938 (Source: Formación del espíritu nacional, Primer curso, Valencia 1955, page 29)


 * When you say "águila franquista" in Spain, you are just talking about this eagle . One of the first decissions taken by spanish politicians during the Transición was to remove this eagle from spanish coins, shields, police shoulder patches...only stony eagles remain, and, I am afraid (I do not like to see historic items disappear, and, d**n it!, the eagle is beautiful), not for a long time.

...I can remember a cartoon I saw in a spanish newspaper in 1977 or 1978: A shotgun from the spanish parliament shooting down the Eagle.


 * Though it's interesting that the Bourbon inescutcheon is missing.

Uh, I missed that detail. In Wikipedia you always learn new things.

Of course it is interesting. Franco was very cautious about his sucession, and he did not decide for the Borbon option until the late 1960´s.

You are a native english speaker, so I suggest you the creation of text in the main article with all this information we are collecting here. The flag could also be included.

Cheers.


 * Thanks for your clarifying remarks. I've no idea on what grounds you credit me with superior vexillo. knowledge!  The item about the cartoon is particularly interesting.  &mdash;Tamfang 04:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey man!, Do not be so modest! ; ) .Modesty is a vice. You knew about the aragonese origin of the eagle and spotted the highly signifivative Bourbon inescutcheon absence!. I missed this last fact, despite my interest and knowledge in the History of Spain in the XX century.


 * Yeah but neither of those points is vexillological. I know much about shields, but I don't know flags so well.  (I'll stipulate that false modesty is a vice.)  &mdash;Tamfang 04:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You wrote a good short text summing up our little conversation. Cheers. Randroide 10:16, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

...The Francoist version or rendition of the Catholic Kings's Eagle of St. John the Evangelist was used from Feb. 1938 to Nov.1981. Differences with respect to the original: the chains of Navarre -in lieu of the arms of the kingdom of Naples ans Sicily-, the motto Una, Grande, Libre (One, Great and Free) and Charles Quint's Columns of Hercules —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.148.202 (talk) 19:17, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

German Eagle symbol
Should the German eagle symbol be discussed here? Please take a look at the German article HERE. Robert C Prenic 17:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Added German wikipedia article information. Robert C Prenic 15:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

???

(A águia tornou-se o símbolo de vários povos e governos, graças à bela postura e à fama de grande coragem. Sua figura esteve presente nas bandeiras dos exércitos da antiga Pérsia, das legiões de Roma e dos imperadores da Alemanha. O emblema de Napoleão era a águia-dourada, e o emblema dos Estados Unidos é a água-de-cabeça-branca ou água careca. Mas a habilidade física da águia tem sido muito exagerada, ela não é capaz de carregar um carneiro ou uma criança. Suas vítimas habituais são cobras, marmotas, coelhos e lebres, ou seja, animais que não excedem seu próprio peso. )

Poland's use of the Eagle
Your article mentions the Polish Eagle in the 'Later Use of the Eagle,' section. Putting it in this section makes it sound as if Poland's use of the Eagle is merely a 'later' development. This is misleading. In fact, Poland may be the first European nation (after The Holy Roman Empire) to use the Eagle. Evidence exists that Poland used a crude eagle figure between 984-1000 AD under Boleslaw I. The Polish King Boleslaw was named "Brother and Partner in the Empire" by Holy Roman Emperor Otto III. Please see the following (3) links for more info:

Please include a Central European section with information about Poland in your article.

Best regards, Mwotan (talk) 20:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Charlemagne & Sejuks
My view is that the discussion of arms attributed to Charlemagne is too long and out of proportion to the rest of the section. I propose it to be reduced in size and moved to the end of the same section.

The largely unreferenced and chalenged for accuracy section about Seljuks etc (Twin-headed eagle and the Turks) is well covered in article double-headed eagle. I propose to reduce it to a stub and cross reference to double-headed eagle.

Sv1xv (talk) 08:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Eagles have been part of (East) Indian culture for a very long time. Eagle symbology has been prevalent in Indian Mythology for at least five thousand years. Garuda (Eagle) is Vishnu's transport of choice and worshipped in his own right. Vishnu being one of triumvirate gods at the center of Hindu faith. Garuda plays a key role in the mythological tale, The Ramayana. Rama (one of Vishnu's nine Avatars) may have lived around 3500 BC in Eastern India and his influence was felt throughout the sub-continent (including current day Sri Lanka) for many years.

Can we add a section devoted to the sub-continent on this topic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gb19652002 (talk • contribs) 21:02, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

as a Christian symbol

 * Mythologically, it is connected ... by Christians with God.

More than with John the Evangelist? —Tamfang (talk) 02:56, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Toledo, Spain and Bogotá, Colombia
Toledo is also known as the Imperial City. That accounts for the eagle, I presume. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.148.202 (talk) 19:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Arab Heraldry?
"Arabs used the eagle in their heraldry before Islam."

I would argue that the Arabs have never used heraldry and if they did certainly not before Islam. Heraldry is predominantly Christian and the precept is that it is inheritable - which is not the case in Arab countries. Maybe "Arabs used the eagle in their symbology before Islam" - which may or may not be true, I don't know. Kiltpin (talk) 12:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

The article is terrible anyway. Pure "Eagle symbolism" stuff should be at Eagle ("Eagles in culture"??) Say, Eagle (symbolism).

"Arab heraldry" originates in the 20th century, along with Arab nationalism. That said, of course there were Arab flags in the Middle Ages, and some of them depicted eagles. Actually, I know just one (prehistoric) Arab eagle flag, that of the quraish The Black Standard of Muhammad was allegedly called "the eagle" after the Quraish flag, even if it did not display an eagle. At that point, that was just the name of the flag itself. I cannot pinpoint a historical flag of Saladin showing an eagle. The so-called eagle of Saladin appears to be a modern (1960s) concept in Arab nationalism. A lot of work is needed here before this becomes a decent article about heraldry. --dab (𒁳) 13:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

bad heraldry poor focus
this article focuses on differences not significant in heraldry. Tinynanorobots (talk) 04:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Mercia
I'd like to add Kingdom of Mercia to this article, but am not sure how to locate the flag in order to upload. Anyone interested in helping me with this venture?

Twillisjr (talk) 14:56, 18 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The Mercian kings used a double-headed eagle, so I moved it to that article. Wilhelm Meis (&#9742; Diskuss &#124; &#x270D; Beiträge) 17:30, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Eagle of Saladin
The Hawk of Quraish has it's own article, yet the Eagle of Saladin doesn't? It think it should have one. Charles Essie (talk) 16:40, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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Fascist Italy
How come the eagle of fascist Italy is not mentioned? Fascist Italy heavily used the eagle as its symbol and was even on the flag of the RSI. See here





76.67.83.138 (talk) 20:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)