Talk:Earl Grey tea/Archive 1

Initial issues
We're being told here that Charles, Lord Grey was hanging out with his friend, a Chinese mandarin, who gave him the recipe for a black fermented Indian tea flavored with bergamot? is that what we're reading here? ;) I'll bet there's quite a sensible explanation for Lord Grey's connection with this particular blend. Who marketed "Earl Grey" tea blend first, for a starter?Wetman 08:01, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Actually, the packet of Twinings Earl Grey that I have, as well as the Twinings website, indicates that it is a blend of China tea, scented with bergamot. No mention of Ceylonese, Indian or any other type of tea, and certainly not Lapsang Souchong. I agree that the story about the mandarin is probably a tall tale, but it is quite possible that somebody made a gift of this China tea to Earl Grey and when it ran out, he asked Twinings to recreate it for him.--Patevans99 17:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)Pat Evans

It's disgusting stuff. Like drinking perfume. Unfortunately unless you specifically say that you don't want it, US restaurateurs will often serve it to you when you request "hot tea". At least that's been my experience, so be warned. -- Derek Ross

Well there is a strong view indeed Derek! I have found that, often, in the US they serve a nasty individual bag of tea by Lipton which is impossible to identify as any specific variety. You'll certainly encounter this if you fly by Continental or visit a diner in around New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. What I'd really like to know is, was Earl Grey traditionally (originally?) served with either milk or lemon? - Kalgari 21:43, 6 Sep 2006

There seems to be a conflict: is Earl Grey flavored with bergamot orange or bergamot herb? Each article claims its subject is the flavoring. BTW, I'd be thrilled if restaurants in the US did default to Earl Grey, since I like it, and in my experience they usually just give you a nasty old bag of Lipton. If it's a decent restaurant, they'll bring the case to you to choose from. -Cmprince 21:43, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Earl Grey is flavored with the bergamot orange; specifically, an oil extracted from the peel.


 * I've never heard of any restaurant serving Earl Grey as default. Enough people dislike it that this would be surprising. Personally, I think Earl Grey's great... but I didn't start really liking it till about age 20. EventHorizon  talk 21:57, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Earl Grey Tea should be great. It was a type of trademark favorite of Captain Jean-Luc Picard on Star Trek: The Next Generation since he gets some from the replicators in almost every episode. That alone should be enough for a trekkie to try some before they buy some. --Seishirou Sakurazuka 22:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Bond, James Bond drank coffee and had harsh words for tea as I remember from the novels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.254.39.114 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with this anonymous recollection above regarding Bond's dislike of tea. Despite my memory to the contrary, I have moved the sentence about James Bond to the fictional characters who prefer early grey section -- petruchi41 24 April 2007.

Seconded (anonymously) with additional note that, specifically, James Bond says that "tea is mud" in the novel of Goldfinger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.212.108.138 (talk) 10:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Advertising?
Maybe the pictures of the bag and package of tea should be removed because they are an advertising. --Magmait 13:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * This company T2 seems to be hijacking the article to sell their variety of tea blends. The mentioning of French Earl Grey in some cafés is fine and the mention of the Lady Grey variety is only permissible because it's endorsed by the latest Earl. I'll remove this T2 menu in the next few days unless somebody objects before then Owen214 (talk) 13:09, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Lady Grey
I think the reason for the name of Lady Grey may be wrong. Some time ago (over five years) I heard a radio interview with somebody from Twinings, at the time that Lady Grey was introduced. It was not in any way for women, any more than men. It was just that is like Earl Grey, but milder. Because of this, I have put a "verify source" tag on the comment about the feminine impluses.


 * I found several references that use similar wording, probably from a single original source that I can't track down. I added one, the references I found are:
 * http://www.tealeaftimes.com/category/tea/lady-grey/
 * http://www.learn-about-tea.com/earl-grey.html
 * plus the one added to the article: http://teapedia.blogspot.com/2007/04/earl-grey-tea-unique-flavor-of-earl.html
 * Xargque 03:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Toxic?
I heard if you drink too much Earl Grey, you get poisoning and have to be treated. A man in HK had this happened to him years ago (too bad I can't pull the article out). Can anyone verify if Earl Grey, when consumed in large quantities, are toxic? Arbiteroftruth 04:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe this may be the story you were referring to: http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-c2054051-664b-4873-96ea-5b0c289539fc.aspx. Seems to indicate that it is the bergamot oil/essence which (in large enough quantities) may be the culprit. Before I read that, I figured it might have been caffeine poisoning, but even 4 litres of black tea shouldn't be enough to cause that. --HoosTrax 04:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Should we list that on the page? It is a serious health issue, afterall. Arbiteroftruth 22:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think a single incident is sufficient to justify a note in the article. An outside link at most, but you ought to try to find at least one other mention of the phenomenon before considering it for inclusion.Trinite 18:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I have just added a toxicology section related to the bergamot oil, yes it is toxic and there have been studies based on photo toxicity and metabolic blocking for certain drugs, but it remains to be seen whether occasional use of the tea (in which I assume the amount of oil is fairly little) is cause for concern. The main fear should be for people who drink the tea daily, people who take medications, people who drink the tea in the summer or in areas that receive concentrated sunlight. There was a rumor (but I can't find an article to back it up) that it causes age spots. This is actually likley in people who are already prone to age spots, since if you read the pubmed article, the phototoxic effect probably causes increase in melanin production.--eximo (talk) 18:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * In the immortal words of Stephen Fry, "of course too much is bad for you, that's what 'too much' means". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.106.247 (talk) 14:07, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a bit much on its own so if you're a tea-with-milk drinker but do not neccessarily need to have your spoon standing up for it to qualfy as 'proper tea', then 1 bag of Earl Grey with a couple of bags of normal stuff (British Blend Tetley in the USA) just gives it a pleasant hint rather than the overpowering bunch of flowers feeling referred to above. Also did anyone consult with the Grey family in Northumberland about the new idea from the marketing dept. re Lady Grey? I hope they get royalties for all of it. Their house, Howick Hall is magnificent but is derilict and has beautiful gardens open to the public. For such a global product, they should be raking it in. 1 July 2007 (65.172.144.91 03:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC))


 * Douglas Adams favoured Earl Grey with milk, although he noted it wasn't the Done Thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.106.247 (talk • contribs) 14:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

"Old Stinky" reference

 * Because of Earl Grey's aroma and Twining's distinctive packaging in England with Charles Grey, 2nd Earl Grey, the tea is sometimes called "Old Stinky".

I tagged this for a needed citation a few days ago after a web search revealed little support for it. Someone then entered this reference from April 2008, which, while supporting the statement, appears to quote it almost verbatim from this very article, where it has appeared since 12 December 2007]. I'm just a little dubious about the claim, not only because I have never heard it called that, but because Earl Grey has quite a delicate scent, particularly when compared to some other teas. So if anyone could either provide another reference or confirm that this is false, please do.  Mi re ma re  02:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm an Australian and work not far from Victoria tube station. Ever since I can remember starting there it's always been refered to as Old Stinky.Robbierotten (talk) 09:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I recall one of my tea-drinking college friends used to call Earl Grey as old stinky. That was years ago! 90.217.7.252 (talk) 23:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed the Amazon reference. This was to a user review, these automatically fail to meet the guidance of self published sources as Amazon takes no editorial responsibility for their accuracy. Consequently such a source also fails reliable sources and should not be re-added. If this is common parlance then a source such a novel may be suitable. You will note that a search on LexisNexis, Google Books and Google News has revealed no matches, consequently I doubt that the term is that commonly in use.—Ash (talk) 09:57, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

There are numerous references to Earl Grey tea being refered to as 'Old Stinky' both in a non-fictional and literary sense, and that's even excluding all self referencing/copies of earlier Wikipedia entries, for example: http://www.lovatts.com.au/news/2009/05/20/earl-grey/, http://shelflifetastetest.com/?p=1314, http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=1580348, http://uktv.co.uk/blighty/item/aid/612700, http://www.abctales.com/story/ewan/gibbous-house-147, http://www.before-you-die.com/if-aroma-is-what-you-do-earl-grey-is-what-you-brew/, http://www.finchsquarterly.com/1283/the-perfect-cup-of-tea/, http://www.happybirthdaytous.co.uk/index.php?month=3&day=13, http://twitter.com/sandztan/status/1763229636, http://www.teareviewblog.com/?p=4953, http://samspeeps.xanga.com/702341136/earl-grey/?page=2&jump=1487404225&leftcmt=1 and I can go on and on. It's clearly a well known cultural term which of course wouldn't show up in Google News and the like. With such overwhelming evidence I'm returning it back into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robbierotten (talk • contribs) 10:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Would very much like to see a source or two from earlier than 2009... none of these expound in any meaningful way on why Earl Grey is apparently called Old Stinky, with the uktv.co.uk article claiming that they have no idea... Could it possibly be because it says so in the Earl Grey Wikipedia article? :) In all seriousness, others such as the link to teareviewblog.com lift the passage (with which this talk page section opens) practically verbatim from this article. If it's a widely used term there have to be older sources, whether online or off. After all it's not beyond reason that someone writing on the web today about any subject might just look that subject up on the most popular online encyclopedia and take an uncited statement as gospel... it's happened before and will happen again.  Mi re ma re  17:24, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Effects of bergamot flavoring
Since Earl Grey tea is flavored with Bergamot orange rinds, it presumably contains some amount of bergamottin. Thus it is likely that this tea has numerous drug interactions, just like grapefruit (which also contains bergamottin). I haven't looked for a reference for this, though surely some articles exist somewhere. Fuzzform (talk) 00:46, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, source now added.—Ash (talk) 12:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

"Green teas, including..."
White tea, oolong, tisanes and rooibos are not green teas, so why does it say "...today the term is also applied to green teas, including white tea and oolong, and tisanes, such as rooibos..."? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.3.151.203 (talk) 01:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

List of references in popular culture and WP:TRIVIA
Do we really want an infinite embedded list of every celebrity or fictional character known to have drunk Earl Grey? I suggest that this is kept as an integrated paragraph, not its own section, of best examples (at most); say the top 3 fictional references: Captain Picard, Batman and Piglet with a similar top 3 celebrities. You will note that the Captain Picard reference has been removed from the article before and has crept back in.—Ash (talk) 10:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think Captain Picard is definitely a big one. The only reason I looked up this article at all was because of his Earl grey habit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.233.178.254 (talk) 22:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Such lists are a trivia magnet. Anyone who ever appeared on TV drinking a cup of Earl Grey is a potential useless trivial example. I agree that Picard does have cultural impact and any other member of this list should be sourced in order to demonstrate some reasonable level of notability for drinking Earl Grey, not that they were once spotted with a cup. Ash (talk) 23:36, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I began to take this Tea when seeing Picard. "-Computer... Earl Gray Tea... HOT!!" If it is not by Picard, I had not known it. ( The commentary would have to be including. ) Thanks.!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fula5 (talk • contribs) 12:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I just deleted a reference to Lost, as it seemed too trivial. As Ash put, a character once spotted with a cup should not merit inclusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.50.178.40 (talk) 22:30, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Difference between bergamot flavouring, aroma and oil
I have been looking at the packages of earl grey tea at my local stores and only one brand of ecological tea include real bergamot oil. The rest include bergamot flavouring or bergamot aroma, sometimes natural bergamot aroma, etc. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it because real bergamot oil is expensive, or are there other reasons. (They also taste vastly different). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vanished user 47736712 (talk • contribs) 08:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
I've added a tag:
 * Citation quotes should be trimmed.
 * Contradictory tidbits tacked on to paragraphs need to be integrated.
 * Short paragraphs should be combined. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kvng (talk • contribs) 16:45, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Spelling
Sometimes incorrectly spelled as "Earl Gray". icetea8 (talk) 17:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I 100% agree. It should ONLY be Earl Grey. Reference: Article, heading History, "The Earl Grey blend is named after the 2nd Earl Grey", (note the link to him). NO WAY can it be Earl Gray. In the English, not American, language, GREY is a colour, GRAY is normally used for a name. Molbrum2 (talk) 14:22, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Adding something to the "In Popular Culture" section
Might one consider adding a reference to the scene in the movie "Amélie" (Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain)?

http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/a/amelie-script-transcript-audrey-tautou.html

http://www.subzin.com/quotes/Fabuleux+destin+d%27Am%C3%A9lie+Poulain%2C+Le/Earl+Grey%3F 71.227.153.98 (talk) 05:53, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Milk controversy
I think a section on the question of whether to put milk, sugar and/or lemon in Earl Grey specifically would be justified, as it's in a different category than regular black tea in that regard and in cultural tradition. Kilburn London (talk) 12:24, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree - I'd like to see that. (Just had an Earl Grey with no milk or sweetener, and regretting it!) --Chronotopian (talk) 15:53, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Alternate origin story/legend
There is a story about the origin of the tea that I read in the 70's in a library book, which is of course no longer in print and not found online. A brief version can be found here: Add Some Bergamot: Discovering Earl Grey

"A long, long time ago, legend has it that Earl Charles Grey was shipping black tea and bergamot oranges in the same cargo. When the Earl’s ship finally arrived at port, it was found that the black tea had absorbed the essence of bergamot into a perfectly balanced black tea with light citrus notes. Earl Grey was born."

The story I recall was more dramatic, the young Grey had staked his small fortune on the tea shipment, and he faced financial ruin over the loss of the cargo; the bergamot oil was for hair pomade. He luckily decided to sample the ruined tea before disposing of it. DK (talk) 18:28, 13 April 2012 (UTC)


 * That sounds a bit made up to me. Kilburn London (talk) 12:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Another story about Corfu is writed in the book TEA, Ian Bersten,1939, The origin of EarlGrey tea, page 114
 * (http://books.google.gr/books?id=Kv3smQe48psC&pg=PA114&dq=The+origin+of+earl+grey+tea+ian+bersten&hl=el&sa=X&ei=22-5UrTLLKie0QWt1ICoDg&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20origin%20of%20earl%20grey%20tea%20ian%20bersten&f=false) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.123.101 (talk) 11:29, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Popular Culture
The character of Captain Jean-Luc Picard on the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation frequently ordered tea from his replicator with the words, "Tea, Earl Grey, hot." --74.128.1.3 (talk) 21:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

On an episode of the television series, The Paper Chase, ("My Dinner with Kingsfield" (1984)), Professor Charles Kingsfield is offered a cup of Earl Grey tea, and at once proceeds to lecture upon the historical peer and his work in stopping the slave trade. WHPratt (talk) 16:00, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

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Moseley Tea Service
Are there other citations for the supposedly original gin and tea cocktails. The book referred to mentions tea a couple times, but doesn't seem to mention either "Moseley" or "gin". The edit is a bit old, but I'll ping the user who added it. --Karnesky (talk) 14:50, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Ceylon Tea?
This article points to another article about Ceylon Tea which is a brand of tea, not necessarily a variety of tea. Perhaps the original source mentioned tea from Ceylon, which is often Camellia assamica, but often not. Please check the original source.
 * Kortoso (talk) 00:33, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

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