Talk:EarthBound/Archive 1

Giygas picture
Should we really have the Giygas picture so close to the top of the article? Especially because Pokey is in it. Don't you think that's a bit spoilerish? - furrykef (Talk at me) 13:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that picture is totally too close to the top. Does it even really need to be in the article? Any other battle scene would be a fine substitute. Aerion//talk 20:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Since nobody else suggested what else to do with it, or did anything else with it, I simply removed it from the article. This makes the image an orphan, but I don't know what else to do with it. - furrykef (Talk at me) 17:10, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I am the one who added the image, and i agree with both of you that it should be remove. KeithV 18:17, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Characters picture
The second image in the article, showing some characters, currently doesn't flow well. Before, it was screwing up the table size. Now, we've fixed that by making the image precede the table, but there's a bunch of blank space, which looks ugly. Anybody got any ideas? Should we fill some of that space with text? - furrykef (Talk at me) 17:10, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I suggest something related to Characters, seeing as how it's right before the Characters section. --A Link to the Past 17:30, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Carefree Bomb
What's a "Carefree Bomb?" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.202.26.44 (talk • contribs).


 * An enemy found in Magicant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.202.26.44 (talk • contribs).

Picture of the Carefree Bomb →

Beatles Trivia: Dungeon Man
According to the wiki, "The song played while inside the Dungeon Man contains a sample from Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)." I assume this refers to the quick drum pattern heard at the beginning of the Beatles' track. However, this is not heard when you are inside Dungeon Man. It's actually played when you are walking around Scaraba with Dungeon Man, who has briefly joined your party. The music played inside Dungeon Man has a quick drum pattern too, but it is not the one from the Beatles' song. I know it's a little thing, but can we get this changed? Back me up, Earthbound fans.

EDIT: Here are the songs: [walking with Dungeon Man] [inside Dungeon Man] (may require reloading) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.34.106.169 (talk • contribs).

Quirks of the game
while I was looking through this article, I saw that the specific infromation that I was searching for has been removed. The Quirks of the game section (as seen in the 7 August 2005 edit) contained more elaborate infromation about The Beatles and Blues Brothers references, and has been replaced by somethig a little less interesting. I can see why it was removed, but I don't think it needed to be removed completely. Yes I know this is almost two months late. I'm placing the Beatles, Blues Brothers and Mr. T infromation from the old article into the current one. The "four numbered cities" and "Bowie" references might be interesting too, but I'm going to leave them out for now. &mdash; Kjammer &#8962;  04:17, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Super Mario References
This part should be deleted and combined with Hidden references. The one reference doesnt even belong on this page being that it is a reference from Mother (EarthBound 0).Buzda 23:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Japanese names / locations section
Do we really need the Japanese names of each location in the game? I don't think too many people will care that "Winters" was spelled "ウィンターズ" and is romanized as "Uintaazu". That Dalaam was called Ranma may be of interest to some, but that's already mentioned elsewhere. Of course, some people do want to know this sort of thing, but I think anybody who does can easily look it up elsewhere. I propose that we delete the "locations" section entirely since it serves little purpose other than to give the Japanese names of every place. (A list of locations without the Japanese names will also not be very meaningful to somebody who hasn't played the game already, and somebody who has will already know what they are.) - furrykef (Talk at me) 00:01, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't see the need to remove the information. It does need to be better formated though. I'm gonna put it in a table. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 00:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't see a need for the presence of the information. What does it add to the article? I don't think it adds anything. - furrykef (Talk at me) 21:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Since there were no further comments, I deleted the section. - furrykef (Talk at me) 20:21, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

PSI and characters list
Also, do we really need to list all the PSI powers everybody has? Does anybody who hasn't played the game really care that Paula has PSI Magnet Ω? Probably not. We could condense it to just a few examples per character. - furrykef (Talk at me) 17:14, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The list of PSI abilities makes the table look horrible. I've done everything I could to make it wider, with absolutely no success. If you notice, there is no difference whatsoever between the 7em and the 13em widths. The only good fix I could think of was to remove the column entirely. And really, it's not even needed. E946 19:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If I recall, I had trimmed it to a few examples and somebody went back and decided to do the entire PSI list. *sigh* In any case, I think it does need to be indicated that Ness and Paula use PSI and Jeff does not. I think maybe it'd be worth noting the type of PSI used in the table. For instance, Ness has mostly assist and status-affecting PSI, Paula has mostly elemental PSI, Jeff has no PSI, and Poo has mostly elemental and assist PSI. Something like that. - furrykef (Talk at me) 23:17, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that the type should be noted. Perhaps it could be included in the character's description? "Jeff cannot use PSI, but he makes up for it with his ability to turn uselss junk into very useful tiems" or something like that. This would keep the functionality of the PSI column and get rid of the ugliness.

removed "Name Jokes" section
I removed the section EarthBound Name Jokes (seen in this revision). I don't think it's well-written, and it's a long and somewhat pointless list. A few examples would suffice. - furrykef (Talk at me) 02:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that came straight out of a walkthrough. I've seen that walkthrough somewhere at starmen.net. Anyway, maybe this should be placed into one of the sections saying that EarthBound constantly uses puns or objects in names, and list a few examples. --Crazysunshine 03:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Runaway Five Reference
From the article:
 * The second song played by the Runaway Five in the Chaos Theater strongly resembles the song The Changeling by The Doors.

The Runaway Five only play one song in the Chaos Theater. Later on, they play two more in the Topolla theater. So is this referring to the second song they play period, which would be the first song in the Topolla, or is it referring to the second song in the Topolla? --Chrismith 22:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Gruff Goat enemy
I think that the Gruff Goat is the toughest enemy in the game. I have a hard time beating it.
 * That's rough. Is that the goat that you face as Jeff in Winters? Atreys 00:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe so. - furrykef (Talk at me) 01:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

It will constantly attack you. Its "Ram and trample you" attack causes a lot of damage, and its "Tore into you" move can kill you in a single hit. How do you defeat this monster? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.202.26.44 (talk • contribs).
 * This is not the right place for this kind of discussion. Please talk in user pages, instead. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 03:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture of the Gruff Goat →

Sales figures?
Does someone know the actual sales figures for this game both here and Japan. Also, the Japanese release section has more info on Mother 3 than EarthBound. If someone can find some refrences, I can clean it up. Manmonk 02:33, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia misinformation
"The game used the Super Nintendo's special "Mode 7" graphics, but only sparingly; battle backgrounds are where Mode 7 was put to the most use."

This is not true; while the backgrounds are visually quite complex, it's all a bunch of palette rotations and pumping interesting looking sequences of values (sine waves, etc.) into the horizontal scroll, vertical scroll, and transparency control registers on each scanline. Like most consoles the SNES can deform backgrounds through creative use of scrolling without using "mode 7". The use of multiple background layers to composite effects together (notably involving transparency) strongly indicate that mode 7 isn't being used, as only one background layer is available in that mode.

"Many of the animated backgrounds of the fight sequences in EarthBound are actually mathematical graphs that employ dynamic variables."

Any proof of this? Has the game been disassembled so the routines that generate the backgrounds can be examined? If so, any off-site links to sources of this information? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.110.37.136 (talk • contribs).


 * Hmm, seeing if it uses Mode 7 or not shouldn't require disassembly. Anyway, my hunch is that the game doesn't use Mode 7 at all, though I'm too lazy to test it right now. - furrykef (Talk at me) 00:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Runaway Five / conformity

 * The Runaway Five had clothes that were all of the same color and style in the Japanese version. This was changed in the American version due to cultural differences -- conformity is looked up to in Japanese culture whereas individuality is popular in American culture. The Japanese group was known as the "Tonzura Brothers".

The more usual (and more plausible) explanation for this is to avoid legal trouble with the Blues Brothers (an idea supported from the changing of "Runaway Bros.", as it was in an early translation, to "Runaway Five"). I think the cultural thing is more of a coincidence. - furrykef (Talk at me) 12:25, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well the Blues Brothers are said by Shigesato Itoi to be one of his sources of inspiration. It may not be that much of an original research stretch to say that the idea for the band is primarly from the blues brothers, considering how similar they are.  Kevin_b_er 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed the statement, it sounds a lot like original research as it is. I left the facts about changes in. --SevereTireDamage 04:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

fuzzy pickles
what is the deal with fuzzy pickles? is there a point to that guy? was he in the first game? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.175.48.97 (talk • contribs).


 * The point of the character is to snap the pictures which are shown during the game's ending credits as "memories" of your journey. He wasn't in the first game. - furrykef (Talk at me) 03:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Ramma / Ranma 1/2?!
I spotted this in the article: "It is unknown whether or not this was to prevent confusion with anime property Ranma ½."

Not only is this ridiculous to assume, just becuase one word may slightly look like another, Ranma 1/2 is not widely known by everyone in America. Only by a percentage of anime fans. This sounds like an completly ludicrous and unsubstantiated opinion added to the article by a fan of Ranma 1/2, just to drop the name for no reason into this article. Can this sentance be removed?


 * I agree. Such a concern would have been far more relevant in Japan than the U.S., I'd imagine. It's possible that there could have been a trademark concern (seems unlikely to me), but until that claim is substantiated, I'd like to leave the whole thing out, since speculation doesn't really belong in an encyclopedia. - furrykef (Talk at me) 08:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Electro Specter
What color is the Electro Specter's background battle thing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.130.166.179 (talk • contribs).

As far as I remember, it was green. I'm quite sure. :D - 203.112.196.85 05:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Time to fix up this sucker.
This could get GA EASILY. But right now this thing needs lots of lists. They all need to be prosified. As promised, this will be my next big thing to tackle.  Sir Crazyswordsman  17:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it needs less lists. That's one of the biggest problems with the article, the number of lists. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with A Link to the Past. There is very little of an actual article, but instead a collection of disjoined and unordered lists.  I would guess the best approach would be to create some narrative about the game and move most of those lists and notes into footnotes/references. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 18:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Ness's weapons
Haven't played EB in ages (I know, I should), but can't Ness also use yo-yos in addition to baseball bats? I know for sure that he uses a yo-yo in both of the Smash Bros. games, but I seem to remember purchasing a yo-yo in Twoson (if that memory is accurate, it'll be a miracle). - Vague | Rant July 6, 2005 06:07 (UTC)

Yo-yos and slingshots can both be used by every character, but they miss much more frequently so most people never bother with them. It's like a 4/16 chance of missing as opposed to 1/16 with Ness & Paula's regular weaopns and 0 with Jeff's. - STAREYe July 6, 2005 19:04 (UTC)
 * Jeff's chance of missing is 0? Lies. I've missed with Jeff plenty of times, and he didn't have any status effects either. FxChiP 23:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Jeff's chance of missing actually refers to CHANCE OF HITTING as I understand, and by the way, it is abour 1/16 too. Correct me if wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.92.208.146 (talk • contribs).

Weapon and Armor List
Ohhh man, don't you know how much some people would appreciate a list of equipment status for each character? I mean, if it is not "spoilerish", I'd suggest a list for the characters' equipment. That is because there are so many strange equipment that has different effects (for example Ness's Casey's Bat) or are quite rare (like Poo's Sword of Kings). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.92.208.146 (talk • contribs).


 * I'm not so sure that kind of specific information belongs in an encyclopedia. People would normally not look at this article for something like that, but rather at a walkthrough or fansite. A note mentioning the unique nature of some items might be worth adding though. 24.242.232.180 02:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Gameplay section
I think the gameplay section focuses currently too much on the actual game mechanics, and doesn't list anything about the game and it's ability to warp and manipulate the human psyche with it's fourth-wall-breaking gameplay and its entirely original pseudo-realistic euphoria world. The appeal the game has is it's ability to appeal to your sense of delusion that the game sort of puts you in, affecting the cores of all your emotions without you really being aware of it. I think something along these lines for the game should be mentioned. AnujSuper9 08:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * An interesting comment. If you can find a reference to back your comments, then add it. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 14:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm finding references for this sort of thing will be incredibly difficult, but I'll see what I can dig up. AnujSuper9 02:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Got a critique of the game that references it. Added to External Links. 201.2.238.219 17:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the removal of much material
Fairly recently, in this edit, a lot of material was removed as unencyclopedic. Today, a user tried to reinstate this material as-is (but, for some reason, without formatting), not knowing why it was removed. I don't think the lists should stay as they were, myself, but I don't think we should throw out the material entirely; we should work some of it into the article. What do you guys think? - furrykef (Talk at me) 08:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, work some of the material into a paragraph as examples. Doppelganger 15:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * One of the problems I have with a lot of the video game articles is what I call "content creep", where people keep wanting to add one more piece of trivia, or make note of every obscure exception to a general statement. I have yet to figure out how to add information without encouraging more stuff being added.  Hopefully you will have better luck than I have had. ;^) wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 16:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That's unfortunate. I have yet to find a more expansive compendium of Earthbound information, even on Starmen.net, the largest Mother/Earthbound fansite around.  Perhaps I can submit some of it over there.  I'm all for integrating the material back into the article while avoiding the trivia list pitfall.Pauyasfyla 04:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

music trivia
there are a lot of claims that such and such song is sampled from whatever, or this song sounds similar to some other unrelated song. are those all necessary? The ones that point out a specific sample are really hard to verify, I've tried listening to the game songs and the songs which have been claimed to be sampled and I can find nothing at all similar about most of them. can we get any verification that they really are sampled? As for the songs that are similar, that might be true in some cases but is it good information? I think there are a lot more things to be said about the music of this game than remarking that some game songs bear resemblence to popular songs —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Agonotheta (talk • contribs).
 * I know the soundtrack used vocal samples, and that was unique for a 16-bit title. You can plainly hear them the song that plays when you enter the characters' names, for example. It wouldn't surprise me that the game soundtrack contains samples, either, though I've found it hard finding verification of this online. Nonetheless, the game's text and graphic also contain several references to the Beatles speficially -- the "YESterday" joke and the yellow submarine inside Dungeon Man, for example -- so I would say that alone should count for not deleting the section yet. I'm fairly certian given some time that I can prove the connection. Kidicarus222 01:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because a melody sounds similar or even the same does not make it a sample. For instance, during the battle with Slimy Little Pile, the song that plays does not sample Super Mario Bros.  It contains a short melody line that slightly resembles the first few notes of the Mario theme, and could very likely be unintentional.  However, the one about Xevious in the arcade... that is definitely the melody from that game (though I believe it is also being synthesized, not sampled from the original).  Basically, let's just get one thing straight.  A sample is when you actually take the original recording of the song and put it in something else.  If it's being played with a diffferent instrument, it is not a sample.
 * The freeware tool 'OpenSPC' allows you to convert Super Nintendo audio rips to Impulse Tracker files. Using this method, I've confirmed that the Liberty Bell March, the Our Gang theme, and the Sgt. Pepper drum pattern are very clearly samples and not re-creations-- i.e., each clip comprises a single Impulse Tracker instrument. I'm pretty sure the same is true for the Ric Ocasek song in Moonside as well; though I'm unfamiliar with the original song, the entire Moonside theme is essentially a two-second, multi-instrument sample repeated over and over at different pitches. --Codeman38 00:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The song played while inside the Dungeon Man contains a sample from Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise).
 * A drum sample from Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band can be heard while inside the Dungeon Man.

Are these two supposed to be the same item? Or could it be that there's a sample in the Dungeon Man theme from the Reprise, and a different sample when Dungeon Man joins your party (as somebody keeps changing one of the items to) from the main Sgt. Pepper song? It seems unlikely, but not impossible. - furrykef (Talk at me) 21:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC) So where does the Liberty Bell March appear in the game? Audio file please? Curvebill 21:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm positive that the BGM using sampling of the opening drum beat from "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)" is when you walk around Scaraba with Dungeon Man. What is actually sampled when wondering around inside of him is unknown to me. Also, Codeman38, the Cave of the Past music definately has to have a sample from the beginning of "All You Need Is Love" by the Beatles. And Ric Ocasek's "Keep On Laughin'" is definately sampled for Moonside's BGM. Buzda 19:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Wii Virtual Console
Any word on this gem being released on the Virtual Console? 71.234.35.37 01:06, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No, not yet as far as I know. Sadly.  This is easily one of my most anticipated VC releases.  AnujSuper9 05:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Man, I don't think there's any game that NOA could possibly release for the VC that would be better than Earthbound... Link&#39;s Awakening 22:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Mother 2 is coming to the VC soon in Japan. Look at todays smashbros.com update (1/25/07 Japanese page) -unsigned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.85.138.246 (talk) 20:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

For anyone who wants to bring this to FA,
Here's a great source. -- Sir Crazyswordsman  18:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Revamp
I have revamped this article, rewriting around 90% and significantly expanded all sections. I really want this article to become an FA, so if additions are to be made, make sure you write in prose and cite your statements. I am also initiating a peer review as of now. Thank you. -- Noj r (talk) 18:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Heeeey! Lookin' good! I don't know how others would react to FA status, but it would get GA in a heartbeat. -- Sir Crazyswordsman  18:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. There is still a lot of work before FA status is attempted, but I'm confident it will pass when ready. Also, thank you for posting that Gamasutra ref, it proved very valuable in the article as you might have noticed. -- Noj r (talk) 22:20, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank the good people at Starmen.net for digging it up. -- Sir Crazyswordsman  17:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if you've looked through this already, but there should be plenty of information you can use here: -- Tenks (talk) 21:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Congrats, you discovered my secret source of information. That page was the backbone of the dev section. I only wish I could speak Japanese so I could get everything out of the articles. -- Noj r (talk) 21:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo Power
Apparently, a recent poll on Nintendo Power shows that EarthBound is the most requested title to be added to Virtual Console. Is this worth adding? 71.191.163.42 (talk) 21:04, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say definitely, it bluntly demonstrates the game's continued popularity, just needs the most suitable source digging up (ideally the issue of Nintendo Power where the results were announced). Thanks for bringing it up! Someoneanother 14:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Another Modern RPG
Any modern RPGs outside of the Mother series? 62.31.242.55 (talk) 09:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you make that a little clearer please? Not sure what's being asked. Someoneanother 14:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably means if there are RPGs placed in modern times like the new The World Ends with You. --Mika1h (talk) 09:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Help with Reception
We need information on the Japanese release of the game. If anybody that speaks Japanese could translate these Weekly Famitsu articles (September 23, 1994 and October 7, 1994) located here, I would be very grateful as they speak about game's commercial success and the magazine's score for the game. We also need information on the commercial sales of the game in either country. American reviews of EarthBound at the time of its release are also requested. If anybody has any information on these, please post it here so it can be integrated into the article. It also needs publishing info so it can be properly cited. We could use:
 * Japanese reviews (anything)
 * Japanese sales
 * Sold 810,000 in Japan, source here. -- Noj r (talk) 05:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, and good luck. -- Noj r (talk) 22:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * American reviews (circa 1995)
 * American sales


 * I don't think vgchartz is considered a reliable source. I know starmen.net says EarthBound sold about 140k in America, but you'd have to ask them how they came up with that number. -- Tenks (talk) 05:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't see how vgchartz is not a reliable source, by that I mean, it has copyright info, tons of information, its entirely dedicated to video game chart sales. Ive seen other articles get away with much worst, I think this will be adequate. As for Starmen, i just might have to send them an email regarding these sales. -- Noj r (talk) 05:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI: On the List of best-selling video games article (the most comprehensive collection of video game sales figures on the Wikipedia), VGChartz has been deemed an unreliable source for sales numbers. -Zomic13 (talk) 07:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:VG does not consider VG Chartz a reliable source, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 38 and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 38. --Silver Edge (talk) 07:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah crap, well thats it. Its impossible to find sales figures for this game. Ive looked everywhere. I still need help finding information about the Japanese release (anytime) and the American release (circa 1995). Thanks for clearing that up. -- Noj r (talk) 17:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ask Tomato for something. -- Sir Crazyswordsman  07:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Both this Japanese fansite and the Japanese Wikipedia page for Mother 2 list the amount of copies sold as approximately 300,000. That's all I could find on sales. It's all unconfirmed stuff, though. -- Tenks (talk) 19:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, can you speak Japanese? Wish I was disciplined enough to teach myself. Yeah, if any sales figures are going to be found, they are going to be Japanese. -- Noj r (talk) 00:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, I don't know Japanese. -- Tenks (talk) 20:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

From this ShackNews article, "Sadly, the game tanked in North America, selling roughly 140,000 copies compared to about twice that figure in Japan." Is ShackNews considered a reliable source? -- Tenks (talk) 00:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it depends on whether Shacknews passes WP:SPS. --Silver Edge (talk) 23:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Ness' Nightmare called the Mani Mani Statue
In the story section, Ness' Nightmare is called the Mani Mani statue. Even though it uses the same sprites as the Mani Mani statue and a similar battle background, it is not called the same thing in game. There are many ongoing debates at Starmen.net taking place about what Ness' Nightmare actually is.Memeligutsa (talk) 12:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

GA on hold
This is an excellent article and a pleasure to read, it's particularly pleasing to see an important but now quite old RPG being given the works. There's a few things to fix up or consider:
 * Where are the images from? Though they have fair use rationales there's no indication of the screenshot origins bar the first (the battle scene).
 * Done. Fair-use rationales have been expanded with reasons for their origins. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Could you go into a bit more detail in the rationales, justifying their use in the article? "Depicts the subject of the article" doesn't demonstrate why these images are actually of importance.
 * Done. Fair-use rationales have been expanded with reasons for their inclusions.


 * The concept art is tagged as a copyrighted screenshot, is this a screenshot though? Where did it come from?
 * Done. Added more appropriate tag. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "RPG" is used a fair bit, but I don't see the acronym in brackets after the full usage in the lead - it's a very common term for gamers but the reader might not be a gamer. Either put it in brackets so the reader's informed or (much preferably) eliminate "RPG" from the article by spelling it out in full or using different wording.
 * Done. Bracketed acronym in lead. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "If enough experience points are acquired, a character's level can increment, increasing attributes, like strength, defense, and health." - Comma overdose, try something like "When enough experience points are acquired, a character's level can increase. This increases the character's attributes such as strength, health and defense." or something else which eliminates them.
 * Done. Cut sentence into two separate ones. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Once all actions are inputted," could you clarify this a little? Make it clear that each character must be assigned a command before the round begins.
 * Done. Clarified. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "An interesting feature of battle is the "rolling counter" HP box." Let the reader decide if something's interesting or not. That sentence could be removed altogether or merged with the following sentence.
 * Done. Removed "interesting" sentence and merged with paragraph above. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The third and fourth paragraphs in gameplay are quite short, could you merge them with the others.
 * Done. I did not merge the last paragraph as it does not pertain to combat. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * ' '"Buzz Buzz instructs Ness that he must embark"'' 'To' works just as well.
 * Done. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "that a massive pile of vomit has been kidnapping the populace" Is there anything you can cite that with? I can't remember if that's right myself, it's been years since I played through this. A lot of readers would be forgiven for thinking it's vandalism. You must admit, it's not every day you read about a videogame featuring an evil pile of up-chuck.
 * Haha, Done. Changed it to "monster". -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * In development, the first two paragraphs are small and could be merged.
 * Done. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Because the two studios were based at two separate locations" There's two studios so it's safe to assume they're at two locations as opposed to any other number.
 * Done. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Of all EarthBound's elements, however, the most lauded was its humor, being universally praised by all critics for its comedic, albiet confusing, depictions of American culture and parody of the RPG genre.[2][39][40][42][10][45]" OK, so you've identified a key aspect of the game for reviewers, rather than having it right at the end of the section as a single sentence (with no less than six references), why not expand that into a paragraph using those sources?
 * Pending. I will expand this later when I have time, or if someone else would like to do it, go ahead. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if it was acceptable to mention specific humorous lines that are in the game? Would it be preferable to say what apspects the reviewers found amusing?Memeligutsa (talk) 11:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Have any of the usual suspects in video game soundtracks reviewed EarthBound's?
 * Pending. I will investigate this later when I have time, or if someone else would like to do it, go ahead. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not something which'll stop me from passing this as a GA, but attributing the IGN pieces to "IGN Staff" is as redundant as labelling English language sources as (in English), no individual credit has been asked for so none needs to be given.
 * Clarification. For consistency's sake, I have tried to add authors for all references. IGN initially signed all their articles with "IGN Staff" and in later articles use specific authors. So that is why they appear the way they do. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This "gravy train" doesn't appear to be on the staff list, reader-submitted review? In this case it appears that the site's own editorial standards are what's rendering it a usable source, I wouldn't bother giving writing credit to someone who doesn't even wish to be named, it looks odd besides the pro. reviewers' credits.
 * Pending. I will investigate this later when I have time, or if someone else would like to do it, go ahead. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I sent a pm to one of the moderators on their forums about it. I hope to get a response soon. Memeligutsa (talk) 12:48, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So I got a reply back. Gravy Train used to be a member of the staff. You can contact a moderator of their forums to confirm this. Memeligutsa (talk) 05:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * DoneI'll guess I'll consider this done then unless somebody wants to question it >_>; You can just send a pm to one of their mods on the forum.Memeligutsa (talk) 20:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

And that's it. Please drop me a note if you've any questions or when the work has been completed. Thank you for putting so much hard work into this excellent article. Someoneanother 00:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for reviewing this article. I will get on the remaining issues when I have the time. For now, I must complete my homework I have been putting off. If anybody else would like to help finish the remaining issues, please feel free to. -- Noj r (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, thank you for your work, I am delighted to see the game being given such attention by yourself and other contributors, doubtless the thousands of readers who visit this article are too. Someoneanother 02:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

GA Failed
Though the article is very close, there's been no further movement for a couple of weeks. I think it's important that the reception is expanded in order to demonstrate the article is wide in scope, as well as reception on the soundtrack. Please have a quick scan of the article and look at the remaining issues above, then renominate. Someoneanother 18:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Gyiyg Strikes Back vs. Gyiyg's Counterattack
The opening sentence of the article keeps getting changed back and forth between translating "Mother 2: Gyiyg no Gyakushū" as "Gyiyg Strikes Back" and "Gyiyg's Counterattack". The latter is a more literal translation of the title, but the former is given as the subtitle in the Japanese version of the game. I think we should either pick one and stick to it, or give both titles. I was about to simply provide both titles in the opening sentence, but I think it makes it too unwieldy. Hmm. - furrykef (Talk at me) 06:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The official title subtitle is "Gyiyg Strikes Back" so why would someone change it? It's not like there's something wrong with it as a translation. It should just be left as "strikes back". Saying it should be "counterattack" is like saying "Gyiyg" should be "Geeg".Linkdude20002001 (talk) 00:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Linkdude. The official translation should be used instead of a fan translation. Memeligutsa (talk) 11:45, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, one translation is enough. It's not necessary to list every variation and synonym possible. Kariteh (talk) 15:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please stop changing it to counterattack, we've already come to an agreement. This was the actual translation in the game. Memeligutsa (talk) 02:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In a similar vein, somebody added the English subtitle, "The War Against Giygas!". However, I removed it because nobody ever calls the game that, not even Nintendo themselves. This phrase does appear in the intro sequence, in the same place that "Gyiyg Strikes Back!" appeared, but it appears nowhere else, not even the box or the main title screen (whereas Mother 2 had "Gyiyg no Gyakushū" on both of them). So I think adding the "War Against Giygas!" bit is just going to clutter the intro paragraph and possibly create confusion, so I removed it. - furrykef (Talk at me) 18:20, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is called that in the game (at the end after you beat Giygas), but I think the actual name of the game is EarthBound. Nintendo has never called it the war against Giygas. To my knowledge at least. Memeligutsa (talk) 02:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh? Where's it called that after beating Giygas? Having beaten the game several times (and having once been totally obsessed with it), I'd have thought I'd have noticed. However, I'm not certain to the point that I would say you're wrong... - furrykef (Talk at me) 11:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Internet Explorer and Firefox show different versions of the article?
I checked on two computers... Internet Explorer does not show the part that I (SirVenom, it won't let me get to the login page) added about the possibility that Mother 1 may have been rated instead of EarthBound. I know that my part was reverted once, but I brought it back with a better source than before. Even the article history doesn't show the part I added, but when I click the edit button, that part shows up. I wasn't sure where to post this, but since this is the only article I know for sure that this is happening on, I posted it here. Why won't IE show the part when FireFox does? Also of note is that I can only access login pages when I am on FireFox. 24.249.134.246 (talk) 00:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Earthbound NOT rated?
There is some room for doubt as to whether Earthbound or Earth Bound has been rated for the Wii. Here is a source article: http://wiinintendo.net/2008/06/02/could-earth-bound-mother-have-been-rated/ SirVenom (talk) 22:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This game (Mother 2 in Japan) was actually registered as Earth Bound at the ESRB. The Virtual Console version is registered as EarthBound, however.ESRB rating list. Kariteh (talk) 22:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Distinguishing between "Earthbound", "EarthBound", and "Earth Bound" is hopelessly confusing and probably rather silly, since Nintendo has never been entirely consistent in the spacing and capitalization anyway. In any case, I think we can be pretty sure that Nintendo would not refer to the NES version as "EarthBound" (or "Earthbound", or "Earth Bound"), because they are aware that this would be too confusing. - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But, Furrykef, they DO refer to the NES version as Earthbound, and they call the Super Nintendo version Earthbound 2. Customer service consistantly calls "Earthbound" Earthbound 2, and one of their financial reports for last year (I think it was last year) referred to Mother 3 as Earthbound 3. It is in the source forum post. 24.249.134.246 (talk) 00:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What "source forum post"? - furrykef (Talk at me) 04:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The one linked to in the article... here it is: http://starmen.net/forum/?t=msg&th=47477 . Also, here is a report from Nintendo referencing Mother 3 as Earthbound 3: http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/3QEnglishFinancial.pdf 24.249.134.246 (talk) 05:19, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess it's possible, maybe we should mention the confusion in both articles?Memeligutsa (talk) 09:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, but I am not to good at writing encyclopedia style content. I will wait to see if someone else will put it in for awhile, and if they don't, I will go ahead and try 24.249.134.246 (talk) 15:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC) <-This is SirVenom, but my thing won't stay logged in.

Hmmm, not done yet. I guess I'll give it a shot, and if it is unsatisfactory, someone can always improve on it. SirVenom (talk) 18:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keriteh is intent on removing anything to do with this :/ Can anyone think of a satisfactory way to implement this? I do think that this is more likely that a DS release of EarthBound.SirVenom (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should be mentioned somewhere. I find it really interesting that NOA referred to Mother 3 as EarthBound 3, so it's possible that this is EarthBound 0. It should be mentioned that Nintendo referred to Mother 3 as Earthbound 3 and say that this could indicate that it's EarthBound 0 that may be released. It's not like that game didn't make the top 5 of the VC poll either. Memeligutsa (talk) 14:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I told Keriteh that I may remove it in a week if I can't do something about that "citation needed" tag, but I would see no reason not to leave the EarthBound 3 note. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.249.134.246 (talk) 19:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I dont know if this is any help, but the following appeared in the Official Nintendo Magazine here in the UK: "The ERSB, the American game ratings board, has recently rated the SNES game Earthbound, meaning it's due to be released on the American VC very soon (and may already be out by the time you read this). Given the demand here for the game, which was never released in the UK, we'd bet on it appearing here soon as well." This appeared in Issue 31, released 6th June 2008. Hope that's of some help to you(and also note the spelling of the title...) SpinachPuffs (talk) 21:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) That could mean anything, though. It's possible that they don't know much more about it than we do. It's telling that they explicitly stated that they were going by the ESRB rating information. - furrykef (Talk at me) 02:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Unverified sources/claims
Which sections of the article need to be sourced still? Anything mentioning the ESRB rating for the Wii was removed. What else still needs to be sourced? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Memeligutsa (talk • contribs) 05:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Until someone gives specifics, that tag is gone. It's not fair to just slap that there and not elaborate. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Advertising?
I noticed the new addition of Ubsey-Movies and EarthBound Saga under Legacy. Somehow I don't think this is notable and can be classified as advertisement. Yoryx (talk) 22:22, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and deleted the Ubsey-Movies reference and the reference to Starmen.Net. I don't believe those two things are notable enough for the article nor do they contribute to it. Removed on the basis of advertisement and non-notability. Please do not simply revert the edit and try to carry on a discussion here. Thank you. Yoryx (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see what the former reference to Starmen.Net was, but are you against having a link to Starmen.Net in external links? If so, why? Reidman (talk) 19:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Starmen.net is a significant fan site, I believe. More so than other sites that get posted much of the time. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:59, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that I did not remove Starmen.Net from the external links. I removed it from the legacy section, which for some reason, is not there anymore. Regardless, the reference to Starmen.Net in the (now missing) Legacy section was nothing but advertisement. A significant fan site is simply this: a fan site. Yoryx (talk) 21:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm going to go ahead and add it to the external links, in that case. Reidman (talk) 21:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I would have to disagree on this also. Starmen.Net has definitely been a notable part of the history of EarthBound and the Mother series in the U.S., and as such a mention is relevant. Even if you debate the relevance of a mention in the article itself, I don't see how anyone could objectively oppose Starmen.Net being one of the external links, since it is definitely the largest fan community based on the game. Many other video game articles on Wikipedia have references and links to large fan organizations. Mr. Accident (talk) 21:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have said this already: I did NOT actively remove Starmen.Net from the external links. Yoryx (talk) 21:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Starmen.Net external link removed as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:EL#ADV on the basis that reidman is the owner and maintainer of the site itself. My apologies. Yoryx (talk) 22:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I knew there was a reason I hadn't edited this page before, heh. Reidman (talk) 06:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It also should be noted that there might be some canvassing going on at the forum for the site http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Site/Discussion/Starmen-net-on-Wikipedia/page/1/ as well. Yoryx (talk) 22:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Just to be clear, the "canvassing" was really just a couple of posts on the part of one or two site members acting independently, including one who went and recreated the Starmen.Net article after it was deleted by consensus, and was soundly rebuked for it. There's no organized canvassing going on in that thread. Mr. Accident (talk) 23:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I should probably also noted that there is IRC chat server where members of Starmen.Net visit and it's also difficult to uncover any possible canvassing that may be going on which may or may not be sponsored by Starmen.Net. Now, I understand this is pushing the envelope, but it's better to err on the side of caution. Yoryx (talk) 09:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * My two cents is that the starmen.net link definitely belongs in the article. One reason is, if you want to know something about EarthBound, that is the place to go to. You're not going to find any other sites that are nearly as comprehensive (at least in English; I don't know about sites in Japanese). Furthermore, the site has attracted enough attention that it's been mentioned in the gaming press numerous times; this page lists all the relevant examples. (And, just to avoid any impressions of a conflict of interest in this post, I'll mention that I rarely visit starmen.net myself unless I'm looking for specific EarthBound information.) - furrykef (Talk at me) 03:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Where else can you find Earthbound information? They give more information about Earthbound than Nintendo ever did and if people want to explore more about the gameplay aspects (such as character stats and such) it should be mentioned. Memeligutsa (talk) 03:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If that was the case, the Mother2 japanese site should be included in the external link but this was not so. Even then, the site is not notable enough and this is still advertisement until further notice. I will try to find an adminstrator or moderator for Wikipedia and ask him for further details. I did look back in the past history and noticed that Starmen.Net external link was removed at some point this year and there was most likely a legit reason behind it. Yoryx (talk) 09:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Including a link to a site that is in Japanese adds little value or supplementary information to an article that is in English in this instance, along with other issues. Logical fallacy: Red herring. 68.94.115.72 (talk) 18:14, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

STARMEN.NET EXTERNAL LINK REMOVAL, READ HERE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VG/EL#External_links

"Inappropriate external links - These links should be avoided in video game articles

Fan-based sites, including those that may extend from the commercial sites listed above (for example, PlanetQuake) - These tend to be self-published venues and are not appropriate for verifiability within Wikipedia."

End of discussion. The external link is removed for the reason stated above. Thank you for discussing this topic and please do not continue to revert the changes. Yoryx (talk) 09:32, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Those words are rather arrogant, especially taking into consideration that a qualifying statement was left out of your quote of the guidelines. The guideline's complete first sentence is: "These links should be avoided in video game articles, though if determined by consensus to be valuable, they may be included." Additionally, inappropriateness is not equivalent to unacceptability. 66.136.150.171 (talk) 16:03, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I know it's important to adhere to WP:AGF and all, but it's worth noting that Yoryx is/was a member of Starmen.Net who was temporarily banned recently for stirring up trouble on the forums; I don't want to assume he's on a crusade, but I think the facts should be noted to highlight a possible conflict of interest. FWIW, I am an administrator on Starmen.Net's forums, so my contributions to the discussion should be scrutinized in that light also. Of course, I make haste to observe that this issue has no specific bearing on whether the link should stay, which should be judged by its merits under WP's rules and guidelines and not by Yoryx's possible reasons for removing it. However, User 66.136.150.171 is right: WP:VG/EL does say that such links can be included by consensus. In that light, we should hear from some other editors as well, since IMHO Starmen.Net does provide useful additional information about the game, self-published as it may be. Mr. Accident (talk) 16:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It should also be noted that my temporary ban has no bearings on this changes from the links for the following reasons: a) I nominated the Starmen.Net article for deletion prior to my temporary ban. b) My actions on another site has nothing to do with my actions on this site. You have come onto IRC a few times on occasion in attempt to call me out on unfounded basis and rather by assumptions. Bringing up an irrelevant cause and effect factor to this is inappropriate and unfitting for an administrator from Starmen.Net and Wikipedia is not your personal battlegrounds. In regards to the editor who is not signed in, I apologize if this seems rude but I have no way of verifying that you are not reidman logged out in order to continue this discussion. So is there a conflict of interest? Yes, but only on the parts of the administrators of Starmen.Net. Again, I ask you to keep your personal bias away from Wikipedia and come here with a clear and impartial head as I am doing the same and working well within the guidelines. If members choose to see more useful additional information about the game, they will do so on their own accords. Good journey. Yoryx (talk) 20:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm glad that you can bring up at least one point to mitigate concerns of conflict of interest on your part; however, I'm certainly not trying to make this a personal battleground. Highlighting a possible COI is never irrelevant, and I disclaimed it by pointing that any such COI might involve myself also (though I was not at all involved in the decision to ban you). As for the impartiality of your actions, as a matter of course I assumed that to be the case absent any specific evidence to the contrary. All I want to discuss here, though, is the relevance of including a link to Starmen.Net's page on EB in the article. I note that the last time a SM.Net link was removed, it was just an unexplained link to "Starmen.Net", and the edit was part of an overall External Links cleanup. It's understandable that it would have been removed in that case, since it was just a link to Starmen.Net's main page, with no context at all. I think a more relevant link would be a helpful addition, and I'd like to hear the opinions of other editors on the matter as well. Mr. Accident (talk) 21:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're discussing the edit by Silver Edge, we should contact him to ask him why it was removed to begin with. Yoryx (talk) 23:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

With that said, Yoryx, I think it's only fair that you admit your own conflicts in this matter, as your history of problems with Starmen.Net goes back much further than just your tempban last week. Also, your assertions that I am posting anonymously are inappropriate unless you have evidence of wrongdoing. Reidman (talk) 16:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For the record, I recognize my own CoI and, having reviewed the relevant Wikipedia rules, acknowledge that it was inappropriate for me to edit a link to Starmen.Net into this article.


 * That's fine and well, but bringing in my past history with Starmen.Net into this is inappropriate and unfitting for the admins and mods of the fansite in question in attempt to undermine my efforts to keep the article credible and clean from any unnecessary advertisements and non-notable references. I understand what you're trying to say in regards to the link being posted by an unknown member, but the timing gives me the reasonable grounds for suspicions this might have been the case. On that basis, my assertions were appropriate. Once again, I'd like to ask you to keep your personal strifes from the forums and the site off Wikipedia so we can actually have a civil discussion without attacking one other on the basis of past history and "who did what to who." After all, I could do the same thing and yet I refrain from doing so as it would be unfitting and inappropriate on equal groundings. Yoryx (talk) 22:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Starmen.net should be included because it is a particularly notable fan site that has made notable accomplishments that other fan sites haven't, which is the why the guideline exists. Not because fan sites are non-notable by definition, but because there are so many non-notable fan sites that they need to tilt it in favor of their removal. If no fan sites were acceptable, there wouldn't be any wiggle room in the guideline, which there is. - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is, the fan site has not done anything of notable accomplishments (unless you somehow count the failure of the petitions or possibly harassing customer service of Nintendo of America for months on ends? Then by all means, add that.) Yoryx (talk) 22:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * They are constantly acknowledged by Nintendo because of their persistence. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * FYI, Nintendo Power does not equate with Nintendo of America. Yoryx (talk) 06:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI, being acknowledged by NP is notable. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI, a magazine catered to fans to promote and advertise nintendo products is not notable. Yoryx (talk) 21:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

NP is not notable? Huh, I guess the entire free world magically stopped being correct. Nintendo Power is created by Nintendo of America, employed by Nintendo Power (until Future US took it over). That NP did an article about Starmen.net and their petitions. They do not create articles about every single web site, there's no history of NP just randomly making articles about every Tom, Dick, and Harry's web site. They are not advertising Nintendo products, unless you consider Starmen.net a product of Nintendo. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI, Nintendo of America does not dictate what NP choose to publish. They act as a standalone nowadays (now owned by Future US, you're right). I hardly think a little blurb to SM.NET is really that big of a deal except to the fans of the site. Yoryx (talk) 22:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * NP is a creation of Nintendo of America, it is not an individual entity making their own magazine and getting real popular. The editors are employed by Nintendo of America, with one of them having been transferred to the localization department. The article is a full page article, which no sane man would refer to as a blurb. Seriously, I don't care about you versus Starmen.net, but you definitely have it out for Starmen.net. NP is a reliable source, and the article is a full page article devoted to the web site. They don't do monthly articles on Nintendo sites, the site got coverage because Nintendo thought it was a big deal, and that the site should get an article (read: article, not blurb). - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Last time I check, if Nintendo of America thought it was a big deal, a mention in a magazine wouldn't be the way to go. Even then, if that's your only stance as to why Starmen.Net is notable because of a mention in an Nintendo Power magazine, then I'm sorry, that's still not acceptable. You do not know how Nintendo Power operates or how their employees are hired and I will not pretend to know how it works but to assume NoA is the one responsible for the direct hiring/firing of the editors is short-sighted and arrogant. The issue here is the notability of Starmen.Net and the removal of the site in the external link. Not the notability of a magazine geared towards the promotion of Nintendo games.


 * In regards to your comments of whether it's a "Me vs Starmen.Net," please drop that attitude right there and then. You're continuing the argument and whiteknighting for Starmen.Net while accusing me of personal bias. I've stated this multiple times on this talk page and for some reason, it still continues to be ignored and pushed onto me as an attempt to discredit me. The site continues to be non-notable and will only be viewed as advertisement on Wikipedia as per the guideline. If people really wants to find more information on EarthBound than what's provided on the Wikipedia article, then they will refer to their search engine: google. Starmen.Net in the search results and will provide further information to them. End of discussion. Yoryx (talk) 09:33, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What? I'm confused, you say that they wouldn't do it in NP, but don't explain one alternate way of promoting them? And is it not acceptable based on logic, or your desire for it to not be? I assume NP operates as a legitimate magazine, and just curious - what's arrogant about assuming NP is Nintendo-made? Yeah, because the fact that NP editors either once worked for Nintendo or later worked for them doesn't suggest anything. Neither does the fact that there are reliable sources establishing that Nintendo publishes NP. I have no idea where you even get arrogant from people assuming that a Nintendo-made magazine is Nintendo-made - I think you have no idea what the word arrogance means. Arrogance means believing yourself to be superior, and I'm not sure disagreeing with you isn't "arrogance". Oh, and, which calls it a then Nintendo-published magazine. And if it's not about its notability, why are you trying to dispute its validity as a source? You've not established that NP's article is insufficient to establish notability, and all you've tried to do is say "oh hey, Nintendo Power promotes Nintendo stuff so it's nothing special", but it's not "Nintendo's stuff". Can you explain why the fact that they do not usually do articles of this nature is irrelevant? If Nintendo constantly made articles about every Nintendo fan site, you'd have a point, but they rarely do. Why they did it is irrelevant - verifiability is the foundation of Wikipedia, not truth. Nintendo Power is a reliable, secondary source.
 * I have no idea what dispute you have with Starmen.net and do not care. But you seem to jump logics, trying to discredit any assertion of notability for the site, failing miserably - you seem pretty aggressive in your attempts, what do you think people will think of it? The NP article is notable, and there's no advertisement in putting the site on this page because it fulfills a standard for web sites that few achieve. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you deliberately ignoring my statement? End of discussion. The Starmen.Net article on Wikipedia was deleted for a reason, the link was removed for the reason as an inappropriate link. You continue to argue that NP is the reason why Starmen.Net is notable. If that's your only reason, then it's not suitable enough to support Starmen.Net inclusion as an external link in Wikipedia. Before I end this note: please reread this sentence you wrote: "I assume NP operates as a legitimate magazine" and then take this saying into consideration, "When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me." With that said, it's done. Yoryx (talk) 19:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I unindented this part of the discussion starting a few posts ago because it was quickly becoming unreadable. Readability trumps consistency (as a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds). - furrykef (Talk at me) 18:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That it was deleted from Wikipedia is not an assertion that it cannot be on Wikipedia. That'd be like saying a site can't be used as a source because it doesn't have an article. And what is your issue with NP? I'm not going to take that saying to heart, because you're the one assuming an unlikely thing - that NP is NOT a legitimate magazine. It's made by Nintendo, so assuming it's legitimate is assuming based on common sense. You seem to be fighting against the idea that NP's article is not that big of a deal by devaluing it as a source, which is, actually, you making assumptions that a Nintendo-made magazien is not a legitimate magazine. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I think Starmen.net should be an exception to the rule. It might be the most professional and accurately informational fansite ever created. This site is pretty much the living, breathing pulse of EarthBound, and to exclude it would be just wrong. It is definitely the place you want to go if you want to learn anything about EarthBound. Father McKenzie (talk) 17:28, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Where else can you find specific information such as the damage formulas and the like that are used by the game? Starmen.net is the only real source of info you can find about Earthbound on the Internet.Memeligutsa (talk) 14:14, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Gamefaqs, Strategy Wiki and other sites have guides on the game. So, Starmen.net is not the only real source to find Earthbound information. Next time, actually look around the internet before you assume. Considering the Starmen.net article got deleted, it doesn't need to be in external links. It's not the end of the world if one link isn't listed on Wikipedia. RobJ1981 (talk) 18:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, those sites don't have the same kind of information that starmen.net does, and some of the information there probably came from starmen.net in the first place. Also, that the starmen.net article was deleted has no bearing at all on whether it belongs in external links. Just because something doesn't warrant its own article doesn't mean it doesn't warrant mention at all. And, you're right, it's not the end of the world if the link isn't included, but why leave out the link to one of the most important sources, if not the most important source, of information on the game? - furrykef (Talk at me) 18:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You've stated it yourself, it's not the end of the world if the external link is not allowed on the article. I hardly think an external link to a fansite is really that groundshattering for an article on a decade old video game which has not seen a re-release since Mother1+2 on the GBA. Yoryx (talk) 19:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't find "it's not the end of the world" to be a terribly relevant argument. Heck, it isn't the end of the world if all of Wikipedia were to be deleted right now, really. - furrykef (Talk at me) 05:29, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yoryx, read WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND and WP:TE. Axe to grind? Grudges against Starmen.net? Take them elsewhere. Not on Wikipedia.Father McKenzie (talk) 16:35, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Yoryx's motivations distracts us too much from the real issue. I think the "right" side of the debate will win out no matter what the motivations behind the debate are. We just need to figure out what the right side is. - furrykef (Talk at me) 19:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Father McKenzie, I appreciate you trying to step in but at the same time, I find it very offensive that you're putting forth the idea (once again as by others) that I'm doing this as a grudge or an axe to a fansite. I followed through with the rules and conformed to the rules in order to make the article neutral. Yoryx (talk) 18:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, this debate seems to be dying down for the moment and there seems to be no consensus to delete the link, so I'll reinstate it for the time being. This is not an official pronouncement of any kind, of course, but the only real objection so far has come from the person who removed it (as well as RobJ1981, but I disagree that "other sources exist" and "it's not the end of the world" are strong enough reasons). Silence implies consensus: if it were all that objectionable, it would seem that more would have objected. Now, this might be change if it's determined that there is in fact a violation of policy here, but the policy that Yoryx cited is open enough to allow the link, albeit with some reservation, so for now I think an assumed consensus is the best we have to go on. - furrykef (Talk at me) 05:29, 15 October 2008 (UTC)'


 * 5 days is hardly an amount of time for "consensus." Removed once again as following through with the rules. Removed on the basis of advertisement purposes and non-notability and due to being an inappropriate link. It is in our best interests to not leave out the actual reasons in order to further our own arguments. Also, personally attacking other members on the possibility of their past behaviours on other sites is inappropriate for editors to conduct themselves in an argument or debate. Thank you. Yoryx (talk) 18:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Where did this "5 days" come from? We've been talking about this for 20 days now. - furrykef (Talk at me) 05:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Coming here from WT:VG/GL. A couple of things to help you guys out: User:Krator (t c) 10:36, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) The number of people saying something, the number of days something has been or has not been said, etc, are not at all things that determine consensus in any way. The thing about consensus is that it's usually very clear, which the above isn't. A good way to get out of a discussion that's not going anywhere is to ask for outside comments. Which is what Furrykef did, and he deserves some kudos for that.
 * 2) Fansite links are a really bad idea. Even linking notable fansites is a bad idea: the notability of a site doesn't determine it's suitability for inclusion in an external link section. It is reliability that counts there, and it isn't the reliability of the site that got it the above mentioned attention in Nintendo Power and what not. Starmen.net is not a reliable source.
 * 3) If a fansite is really notable in connection to a game, it is best to explain that in the article and include a reference. An example of this is reference #77 in TES4 (link is dead now, btw): the specific thing that fansite does (a certain mod) is notable in connection to the game, and it is discussed and referenced, without naming the fansite; it is not the site itself that did something relevant. Including an external link beyond the reference would be blatant advertising here. After all, we don't external link BBC news in every article it's referred to. I don't see how this fansite did something that would warrant a mention in the main text, so the above doesn't apply here.
 * Why isn't starmen.net reliable? Don't say just because it is a fansite. Where else are you going to find more detailed information about the game? Gamefaqs is just as much of a fansite as starmen.net is (and in my opinion far less reliable, the strategies and such they discuss are not that helpful plus far more reliable guides can be found on starmen.net)Memeligutsa (talk) 14:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

If Starmen.net is not allowed to be listed due to being a fan site I hope you have the same standards for every article on Wikipedia. Let's check one..Star Wars..hrm. Oh look, a link to Wookiepedia, a fan site. So. Oh yeah it's a video game..Final Fantasy. Oh look, a link to the Final Fantasy wiki. Or is it free from your purges because it is a wiki? I like those ad's on those wiki sites too, must make a little bit for that. Does Starmen.net have ads? Never seen 'em myself..

Censorship
I think I know that, besides the Red Cross being removed, there are other things in the game that are changed for censorship, like "domestic violence or abuse", in which Aloysius Minch slapped his son Pokey as punishment in the original version; in the U.S. version, it was changed to Aloysius telling Pokey he gets "no dessert for the rest of the decade." Also, the Insane Cultist is turned from white to blue to avoid resemblance to the KKK. And there are other location names changed for censorship too. Here's the link for this. --Angeldeb82 (talk) 01:29, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Insane Cultist was always blue. (They want to make everything blue, remember?) What they changed was, in the American version, they removed the letters "HH" from the hood and added a fuzzy white ball to the end of it to make it look more like a Santa Claus-type hat. - furrykef (Talk at me) 11:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Cut out Mother 3 spoiler - ok?
I just edited the page and took out " which leads to the sequel, Mother 3, where Pokey flees to the Nowhere Islands in the future. There, he amounts an army from various places in time, calling them the Pigmasks, and attempts to take over the world, where he is stopped by Lucas and company." This was at the end of the plot summary. My rationale is that this is a summary of Earthbound, so spoilers of Mother 3 are a) irrelevant, since they don't happen in Earthbound and b) disappointing, because part of the fun of Mother 3 is wondering if there is a connection between the Pigmasks and Pokey. I'm several hours in myself and they haven't mentioned Pokey yet. Feel free to contest.

ThanatosInstinct (talk) 09:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Could be better
Parts of this article are poorly written. But I sense some degree of Article Ownership and don't want to get involved. I will give an example of poor writing and see if anyone agrees.

"Instead of using swords and other traditional RPG weapons, the weapons in EarthBound are items such as frying pans and baseball bats."

I would change that to:

"While most RPGs up to the mid 1990s primarily utilized swords and other traditional weapons, the characters in EarthBound use less conventional weapons such as baseball bats, yo-yos, and frying pans."

What do you think? Belasted (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Go ahead. Don't forget that the Wikipedia guidelines say to be bold, too. :) - furrykef (Talk at me) 19:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused...
This article doesn't mention anything about Mr. Saturn? Is this an alternative name or what? shouldn't the article say this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.72.25.210 (talk) 01:51, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, there should be a section for races or something. There's also the Tenda Tribe. Didn't there used to be some description for each town in the game? Something should be done, but I don't have it in me to do it right now. Belasted (talk) 02:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Why is ギーグ transliterated as "Gyiyg"?
It should be "Giigu", no? Where does "Gyiyg" come from? I don't believe that it's even possible to write "Gyiyg" in Japanese. --Kinghajj (talk) 05:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Because that's the character's name. If you look at the intro screen (the one that says "EarthBound: The War Against Giygas!" in the U.S. version), in the Japanese version, it says, in plain English, "Mother 2: Gyiyg Strikes Back!" (as seen on this page, for example). ギーグ is just the best possible Japanese phonetic transcription of "Gyiyg"; presumably Itoi chose an unpronounceable name to make it sound more alien. - furrykef (Talk at me) 16:27, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Squatter Demon
Is there really enemy called Squatter Demon in the game? What does it look like? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.130.171.59 (talk • contribs).


 * This isn't a game forum, it's for discussion of the article itself. --Chrismith 03:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Squatter Demon →

Quit being such a priss, just answer his damn question... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Religious Cult (talk • contribs) 00:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Add a combat image
This article needs a combat image (much more than it needed an image of Ness as depicted in Smash Brothers). I would add one, but I'm not familiar with the whole rationale for fair use stuff. Belasted (talk) 04:12, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Characters' last names
Paula's last name was just deleted. If that should be the case, then so should Jeff's last name. He may be Dr. Andonuts' son, but that doesn't necessarily mean they share the same last name. I can't currently use translate.google.com due to restrictions on this computer, but someone who can should go here: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOTHER2_%E3%82%AE%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B0%E3%81%AE%E9%80%86%E8%A5%B2 and look at the names using the translator, and maybe look at the sources (if there are any). Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. Nonetheless, the Japanese article is interesting, and they even add some English names. Belasted (talk) 02:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Porky or Pokey
"Porky" being more widly known than "Pokey" because of the release of Super Smash Brothers Brawl and "Porky" officially being his name rather than "Pokey" (if you take what the creator of the character says his name is as official.), "Porky" is used more frequently on Mother series related pages on wikipedia. In order to keep things consistant, his name should be the same on ALL pages. "Porky" being official (according to Shigesato Itoi, Nintendo, Nintendo of America, and probably Nintendo of Europe when SSBB is released there.), his name should be consistantly spelt as such. I chose to say this on this page because it is the page for the game where "Pokey" originates and it is where I see "Pokey" the most. I would like to give people a chance to discuss this before I go and "consistify" the pages.Linkdude20002001 (talk) 17:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I say we leave it as Pokey as it may have been mistranslated (not sure if this is the right word here) in brawl. I am aware that the Japanese name is Porky, but as there is no English version of the game that uses Porky it should remain as Pokey. When EarthBound is released on the Virtual Console I think we should use the name that is in that version of the game. Memeligutsa (talk) 12:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a feeling "Pokey" was the mistranslation. --(trogga) 01:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, the intention was to name him Porky because he resembles a pig. This is corroborated by tons of evidence in Mother 3, as it includes lots of stuff about pigs, a city called "New Pork City", etc., and the character in question plays a big role in all that. "Porky" and "Pokey" both happen to be spelled and pronounced the same in Japanese (ポーキー Pookii). So Itoi's intention is certainly not in doubt; the question is, I suppose, whether or not this is grounds for changing it in the article. - furrykef (Talk at me) 02:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should call him Pokey in the article, but mention that his name was mistranslanted somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Memeligutsa (talk • contribs) 05:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, someone at Nintendo of America must have known it was "Pokey" in EarthBound, but decided to change it to "Porky" because they realized that's how it was supposed to be. I don't know if NoA would change his name in a Virtual Console release of EarthBound since they kept "Princess Toadstool" in the remake of Super Mario 64, Super Mario 64 DS. Since NoA used "Porky" in one of their newer released game, it can be considered "official". Personally, I don't consider something official just because it was used in the English version of a game. To me, something the creator says is what I consider official. Since Shigesato Itoi says his name is "Porky", that makes it official, but even if you only take what NoA says as official, then you still should consider "Porky" official because of it's use in NoA's Super Smash Bros. Brawl.Linkdude20002001 (talk) 03:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been a week and no one has said anything more, so I'm changing "Pokey" to "Porky".Linkdude20002001 (talk) 20:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree with this change. He's known as Pokey in EarthBound. Brawl doesn't really matter. If Pokey is renamed Porky when (if) the game comes out on the VC then we can change it. -- Tenks (talk) 21:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I also disagree. Porky may be official for the series as a whole, but there is no changing the fact that he is Pokey in Earthbound. Only a VC release can change that. SirVenom (talk) 19:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should just wait until the VC releaseMemeligutsa (talk) 02:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No. It's Porky otherwise they wouldn't have Pork chips or Pigmasks in Mother 3. Either mention that it was mistranslation or just call him by his proper name. 68.42.144.106 (talk) 20:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * We use Pokey in the EB article unless Nintendo changes this game to call him Porky. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

STARMEN.NET
Add it. Enough of this edit war. Nintendo Power is a reliable source. So is Starmen.net. There is no proof that it is as unreliable as many of the other sources on Wikipedia. Yoyrx is just a troll. He is not a reliable source as to whether Starmen.net can be added or not. It hosts many official documents.

I say, put it on! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.108.93 (talk) 06:23, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Reliable source depends on the context. See the guidelines for self-published sources. Andre (talk) 11:32, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

E
The page already says that this game has a Wii rating, but it does not say that the rating is E for Everyone with no descriptors. We should add this tidbit in somehow. I don't know exactly how, though. 207.172.132.55 (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

EarthBound Collection?
I was browsing the web, and I found several claims about an "EarthBound Collection" game for Wii. Supposedly, it includes all 3 "Mother" games, digitally remastered in 3D. Does anyone else know something about it. P.S. Some fan sites included photos of the cover for the English version. I've also seen acclaimed "screenshots from the Japanese Version. NessLord64 (talk) 18:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)NessLord64

Links to these "screenshots"? 84.68.75.8 (talk) 16:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Developer
Who developed EarthBound, and who published it?

Thanks, --85.72.26.254 14:04, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Developed by APE, published by Nintendo, if I understand correctly - furrykef (Talk at me) 13:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not only by APE, also by HAL Laboratories, which that's why I understand Ness came to the SSB series. Just in case HAL hasn't been added. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.92.208.146 (talk • contribs).

Mother was going to be called Earth Bound, but they closed when they released this one. Simply put, it's EarthBound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.111.182.230 (talk) 22:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

EarthBound Collection Cont.
I'm not sure where I found the screenshots, but the Box Art was on www.vgboxart.com NessLord64 (talk) 22:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)NessLord64
 * If by the box art you mean, then I can find no less than SIX problems with the box:

In general, if an EarthBound Collection does exist (it may), then this is, very likely, not its box. For point of reference, here's a similar box done for the DS. Hurricane Angel Saki (talk) 06:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Why are only Ness and Lucas on the cover? Shouldn't Ninten be there too?
 * 2) The Ness and Lucas arts are quite plainly from Super Smash Bros. Brawl as opposed to new art.
 * 3) There are no ESRB search results showing an "EarthBound Collection" and the "EarthBound" listed on there for the Wii is probably for the Virtual Console (for reference, I looked at Kirby's Dream Course, which is on the VC, and the ESRB system doesn't individually mark VC games on the Wii).
 * 4) The English on the back is painful to read with capitalization errors (the last "Nintendo Wii" is all lower case), grammar errors (Music, script should be music and script, the comma is awkward), and misspellings (rematsered, anticepated, controlls)
 * 5) The uploader says it was uploaded in April of 08, so a year without update is suspicious.
 * 6) The comments made by the uploader (Danix) indicate that Danix made the box art.

Okay, I admit those are pretty legitimate. One thing though. I think they didn't put Ninten on there because He looks a lot like Ness. People who had never played EarthBound or heard of Mother would wonder why they put the same kid on the box. I did notice the Super Smash Bros. Thing, but maybe it was just a prototype cover. This might just be to help design it and they're going to reanimate it later. Or, Nintendo decided to cheat and use the same characters. NessLord64 (talk) 00:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)NessLord64

Intro paragraph cleanup
I've read this article and everything needs work. I've decided to edit the intro.Valcumine (talk) 10:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Rarity

 * Currently, there aren't enough copies of Earthbound to match the demand, making the game very rare. The game is valued anywhere from 40.00 to 100.00 USD, depending on the market.

This was originally posted at the end of the "Legacy" section of the article. I removed it a couple of times because I thought it didn't fit there and I didn't know where else it could fit. At the behest of User:74.194.224.252, I'm moving it here for discussion (which, admittedly, I probably should have done the second time around, if not the first). - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Red Cross
Was it really removed due because it was religious imagery? Or is it because of this? --Everdred 18:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's more likely due to respect for the Geneva thing. Since we can only speculate, I simply removed the reason altogether, stating simply that the crosses were removed but without stating a reason why. - furrykef (Talk at me) 03:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The Red Cross was removed because it is a trademark of the Red Cross.Valcumine (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Release Date
One thing I noticed is the page is missing release date information. Japanese Release date was August 27th 1994, however there is little information about US release date. Everybody knows that it is June 1995, but no exact date. The accepted date is June 15th, 1995. Official Nintendo Reference to June 1995. External source citing June 15th as release date. That's the only source with an exact date.

It is also worth noting that Mother 1+2 was released in Japan on June 20th, 2003.

ROFISH - Web Developer, Starmen.net 24.163.146.18 05:43, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, it's June 5th. http://earthboundcentral.com/2010/02/earthbound-promotional-materials/ 66.172.100.207 (talk) 05:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Logo
Anyone else noticed the game's logo actually say "EarthBolind" instead of EarthBound? Sountregoon (talk) 06:54, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * No, it's just an imitation of stencil lettering. You'll notice that the other letters are split up similarly. - furrykef (Talk at me) 20:04, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Isometric perspective
This article states "The game uses oblique projection, while most 2-D RPGs use a 'top down' view on a grid or an isometric perspective." Though this is true for most of the game, the city of Fourside does use an isometric perspective (outdoors).

See  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afarnen (talk • contribs) 02:05, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Correct Capitalization
"Earthbound" or "EarthBound"? Someone check the correct capitalisation please! -- Oliver P. 17:57 20 May 2003 (UTC)


 * It's disputed, even Nintendo is inconsistent sometimes with "Earthbound", "Earth Bound", and "EarthBound", but "EarthBound" is the most popular spacing/capitalization by far and used the most often in Nintendo's promotional materials. It's pretty safe to say it's the "official" spelling. - furrykef (Talk at me) 13:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Restoring to the more popular English-language title according to Google:


 * '"EarthBound" SNES' 14,100


 * '"Mother II" SNES' 20

- M123 05:51, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It should also be said that within the game, when the game is spoken of, it is written as EarthBound. -Vague Rant 09:02, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

The title is Mother 2, not Mother II.

Correct Information:

14,100 > 5,270, not winning for Mother 2, but it certainly is a lot closer than you'd make it out. -A Link to the Past 01:51, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * The name on the box, title screen, etc. etc. always reads "Mother 2", so that is the official "spelling" of the title and therefore what should appear. - furrykef (Talk at me) 13:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In-game quote: "I wonder if EarthBound has been released yet."GoPeter452 (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Giygas and pornography

 * Giygas, according to Itoi himself, is representative of pornography that he saw at an early age.

Can this be substantiated? Anybody have a source for this quote? What exactly does it mean? - furrykef (Talk at me) 00:26, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Sounds like trolling/nonsense. Andre ( talk ) 00:45, July 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * Nope, it's total fact. I read it in an interview, and he mentioned that the Giygas battle was inspired by a rape movie he accidentally wandered in on at a theater. -- A Link to the Past 05:25, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * In that case I want a source for the interview (whether it's in English or Japanese; I can't read Japanese but I know people who can). - furrykef (Talk at me) 12:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)


 * http://www.1101.com/MOTHER/07.html. -- A Link to the Past 13:34, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll attempt to verify it tonight when I'm at home and have the Japanese language pack installed. Thanks for the link. hansamurai &#39151;&#20365; (burp) 13:09, August 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Wow, I must hear more! --Buzda


 * No, it was just a porno, but he thought that the woman was being hurt because of her moaning.

Did anyone every translate or source the appropriate interview? This is really interesting trivia, but I can't help but wonder if it's just an urban legend, since I've never seen it anywhere. If the link above can be translated or verified, we could use it as a citation. --SevereTireDamage 23:34, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't pornography, it was just a film kids shouldn't watch, called The Military Policeman and the Dismembered Beauty. Some people even doubt it was a rape scene. 62.31.242.55 (talk) 09:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that's the film. Much of Giygas's dialogue is taken from the woman in the scene. The point is that the Giygas battle, like much of Earthbound, is designed to replicate the feeling of being a child walking in on something he wasn't meant to see. 92.15.32.152 (talk) 12:58, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Great success in Japan?
The only sales numbers I've seen for EarthBound are 300,000 units sold in Japan, and 140,000 in the US. Compare with, say, Chrono Trigger, which sold just under 300,000 in the US and over 1.5 million in Japan. The point isn't the absolute numbers but the ratios; EarthBound sold much more poorly in Japan when you consider the markets. Indeed, despite popular belief I think it's fair to say that EarthBound sold pretty well in the US and pretty poorly in Japan for an RPG of that time. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 12:56, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * As an addendum, the mention of a much higher than normal price is simply inaccurate even according to the source cited. The source gives a sticker price of $60, which is what I remember paying for it; SNES games sold for between $50 and $90 depending on title.  For comparison, Super Street Fighter II was $70 and Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 3/6 were both $90.  I believe the phrasing in both of these cases should be changed to be more objective and accurate. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 13:05, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * In the absence of any discussion on this topic for several months now, I've gone ahead and made the edits. - OldManNeptune ⚓ 05:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Credits and infobox
I reverted a few unsourced infobox additions that were not in the credits (or otherwise sourced). If you want to add them back, please discuss it here first. czar  &middot;   &middot;  23:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

"All" the composers
I hit "enter" before I could complete my edit summary, regarding this edit. I'm against the inclusion of the word "all" because it is redundant as Sjones23 said. "the composers" alone already implies all of them. I don't see it as being ambiguous. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 18:12, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed czar  ♔  02:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Misleading Screenshot
The screenshot of the game uses a program that vectorizes the graphics on zsnes, compare it with other screenshots, I think that it is misleading and should be replaced. Momo56 1:01, 19 May 2010
 * And it's a JPEG to top it off. Can't believe this still isn't fixed. If nobody uploads a new screenshot, within a week I will. Anonymous-232 (talk) 16:40, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. Anonymous-232 (talk) 04:21, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Telepathy in fiction?
I think the game should be able to be used as a source for it's self the same way a book can be used; but if anyone can find a secondary source from a reviewer saying the game features telepathy it would help. CensoredScribe (talk) 23:14, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Strange, Funny And Heartrending.
This article doesn't describe the tone of Mother/ Earthbound accurately. Earthbound isn't just popular because you can eat a hamburger from the trash. It's popular because of the powerful emotive content- not just at the end but throughout. If the opening paragraph made mention of the Japanese release's subtitle- "Strange, Funny and Heartrending"- and perhaps that Itoi was a contemporary writer and collaborator of novellist Haruki Murakami, then this might be a quick way to address this problem. 92.15.32.152 (talk) 12:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I know it's been a while, but "Strange, Funny And Heartrending" was MOTHER 3's slogan, not MOTHER2/EarthBound's. -Λίνουξ (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination

 * Did you know nominations/EarthBound, fandom, fan translation, Marcus Lindblom czar ♔   16:10, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Main composers
The sources and game credits refer to Suzuki and Tanaka as the main composers, and infobox vg instructs to not include additional composers in the infobox. As for the primary composer, Suzuki is first in both the credits and on the soundtrack. Per BRD, since the recent additions are contested, please form consensus here on this talk page before making the change unilaterally again. czar ♔   03:52, 8 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, what makes an "additional composer" anyway? Hiroshi Kanazu contributed to the soundtrack (although not to the extent of Suzuki and Tanaka) and the Mother 2 OST (SRCL-3024 / http://vgmdb.net/db/covers.php?do=view&cover=49569) proves it, if you don't believe the end game credits. Toshiyuki Ueno was also credited for additional music, however he wasn't credited for anything in the OSTs of this game (and maybe that's what the infobox was instructing to omit here) Keep in mind that this OST doesn't have every track from the game (just the main themes), so Kanazu probably did other songs as well. Just because Kanazu and Ueno's role was very minor composed to the other two, doesn't mean they should be omitted from the infobox (unless its like a single song or something each, then it's whatever) ~ Dissident93  (talk) 04:02, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Without looking at the text of the guideline, I would guess that one or more musicians could be considered "main" composers if their combined work makes up 75% of the soundtrack. In this case, 75% of the music was composed by Suzuki and/or Tanaka; other composers contributed substantially less, thus do not warrant inclusion in the infobox. That's my guess. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:18, 8 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I guess that would work, but if a composer was known to have written 25% exactly, that's still a sizable number and wouldn't feel right to omit him from the infobox. If they contributed around 10% or less however, (which is what Kanazu and Ueno most likely did, actually), then I think it would acceptable to omit them from the infobox, but only if they are acknowledged somewhere else in the article. (I made an edit mentioning them in the audio section, but I think a sentence or two could be added mentioning the themes Kanazu is known to have written) ~ Dissident93  (talk) 09:23, 8 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it could be done like this? Or would this also be against policy?


 * The soundtrack and credits make it very clear that there are two primary composers. The infobox is meant for quick access to those in lead roles, and the above adds unnecessary bloat. Kanazu and Ueno can be added in the prose if a reliable source mentions them. I don't think it's wise to start calculate 25%, 10% and make rules based off of those arbitrary distinctions. There's a reason why they were listed as additional composers in the credits—the team made the distinction for us. czar ♔   11:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. ~ Dissident93  (talk) 21:29, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Fair-use images
, I sense you're readying this for an FAC, and I want to caution you that this page has five fair-use images, a very high total. I'm not sure the nudity and concept-art ones contribute much to the article that can't be explained in text, either. If you do take it through, I don't think I'll oppose on these grounds; just something to be aware of. Tezero (talk) 20:42, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * , thanks for the note. I didn't add them myself, and I agree that they're not doing much for the WP:NFCC. Haven't pulled the trigger yet though czar ♔   20:49, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Album art
I don't think we need it depicted at all since the artwork itself is not the subject of any commentary. – czar   17:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Assuming there is no free equivalent, I don't see why the coverart is really necessary in this article, as the album itself doesn't even seem to be discussed. The music is an aspect of the game, the CD came later. ~ Mable ( chat ) 17:42, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Infobox
"Do not list Wii U or Virtual Console here, per Template:Infobox video game; Virtual Console is emulation"

Is there any policies or consensus with that? If there aren't any policies in regard to that, who here wants to add or not add Virtual Console release to the Infobox? 2601:982:8200:4790:D134:1A25:368F:5316 (talk) 01:21, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, see the template's talk page archives czar  08:53, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Extra source
Stumbled into another review. Don't think the article needs it, but thought I'd leave the details here anyway:  czar  08:53, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Split
The Original 12 is the term for all playable characters that 1st appeared in the 1st Smash Bros. game. Nearly all of them have their own wikipedia articles. By nearly, I mean that we are leaving someone from The Original 12 out...

...where is Ness? Owen313 (talk) 04:45, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Each character needs to be notable on their own merits to have a separate article, appearing in the first Smash Bros. is not enough to guarantee an article for Ness. A better argument would be to present several reliable sources that offer significant coverage of the chracter to help a potential article pass the notability threshold. For additional help regarding reliable sources and notability please see WP:IRS and WP:N.--64.229.167.158 (talk) 07:24, 28 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Discussed Talk:Ness (character) and already covered in EarthBound. If there is more worth adding, based on reliable, secondary sources, add it in the existing section. czar  18:20, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I personally hope that some day, Ness will get his own article. I expect that this will happen eventually, but for now, there's just not enough to say about him to do that. And that's alright. As long as everything that sources have said about the character is described in this article, everything is alright. ~ Mable ( chat ) 14:21, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, I think the character does deserve an article, but there just isn't enough organised information about him right now. One day, he will get one. Manfred (talk) 15:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

You can think of 'video game mascot', and after Mario and Crash and Spyro and Sonic it eventually comes down to Ness.

..If action isnt taken, I'll eventually do it.

101.161.9.29 (talk) 23:30, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That is frankly a weak argument since Ness is nowhere near the level of those charcters and if one goes far enough every character ever made would eventually be covered.--64.229.167.158 (talk) 18:51, 17 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose - first expand the section beyond 9 sentences (let's say to 6 paragraphs) and perhaps then there will be merit for a separate article.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 19:29, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose Not enough detail about Ness. Gary &#34;Roach&#34; Sanderson (talk) 21:51, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

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Keiichi Suzuki interview with Weekly Famitsu


Is a translation of this available anywhere? Ilovetopaint (talk) 17:16, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * There's a summary and scans at starmen.net. Chewy has done a lot of interview translations too, but I don't see it in her collection (for posterity: ) czar  21:42, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Gaps (Kouichi Ooyama, Japan reception)
I noticed that the article does not have a word about the contributions of graphic artist Kouichi Ooyama, nor the game's reception in Japan (discounting a passing reference to its sales figures). At least a couple sentences would be nice (if any info is out there...) --Ilovetopaint (talk) 03:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Overly long "reception" and "legacy"
I've never really been able to read this entire article from start to finish because of these sections. They contain way too many trivial opinions from individual writers ("its reliance on "personal experiences" made it "exactly the sort of title that would thrive today as an indie hit"" - is that so?). It's also hard to figure out which reviews were contemporary or retrospective - they should be divided from each other.

The point of a "legacy" section is to summarize what made the subject culturally significant. Some of these statements could be reconfigured into another section covering the game's idiosyncrasies or quirkiness ("IGN's Thompson noted its 1990s homage as "a love letter to 20th-century Americana", with a payphone as a save point, ATMs to transfer money, yo-yos as weapons, skateboarders and hippies as enemies, and references to classic rock bands."). Ilovetopaint (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This was one of my first Reception sections so there's plenty of room to rework the "X said Y" structure and follow my own advice from Copyediting reception sections, if that's what you mean. I have a separate draft where I've been working on updates. But not seeing why reception/legacy of the game's "quirkiness" should be treated apart from its general reception/legacy. What kind of "section covering the game's idiosyncrasies or quirkiness" are you proposing? Also the sections aren't divided into contemporary/retrospective, but opinion of the game and assessment of its impact. czar  20:49, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * What I meant was, perhaps, make the "weird stuff" (i.e. the player saves their game using a telephone) into its own paragraph or such under "Gameplay". As it stands now, there is a substantial amount of info regarding the game's contents under sections where it's only supposed to be talking about, in general terms, what made the game stand out in 1994. Plus there's a lot of OR going on - many banal "thumbs up/down" style references attributed to "multiple reviewers" that are really only the opinion of a single writer. Here's one sentence that encapsulates it all pretty well:
 * "It 'would be a great disservice', GameZone said, merely to call EarthBound 'a gem'.".
 * Besides how nauseating that statement reads, I have never even heard of a site or magazine called GameZone. What credibility could they possibly have? Another quote that could be summarized in a more useful fashion:
 * "Jeremy Parish of USgamer called EarthBound "the all-time champion" of self-aware games that "warp ... perceptions and boundaries" and break the fourth wall, citing its frequent internal commentary about the medium and the final scenes where the player is directly addressed by the game."
 * ...could become something like...
 * "Numerous elements in EarthBound repeatedly break the fourth wall, sometimes going so far as to directly address the player."
 * ...if something of that sort hasn't already been included. It's interesting whatever made EarthBound unique compared to other RPG games of the era; it's not so interesting reading variations of "EarthBound is awesome" over and over again. --Ilovetopaint (talk) 12:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

I just noticed that "North American release" literally includes details about the game's release and reception in the US, not just its localization process. Those details should have been under "Reception" as well - more evidence that "Reception" should be split into "Release" and "Retrospective reviews". Ilovetopaint (talk) 13:04, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

✅ Took action myself - I removed a couple of the fluff opinions and rearranged some of the sections - huge improvements IMO.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 13:41, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * re: the "Release" section changes made today, a game's marketing and release is part of its development process (WP:VGORDER). It's common to include it in the Development section unless the marketing/release of the game have enough standing to warrant a separate section. czar  04:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Proposal to split Ness back into his own article
Until 9 December 2014, Ness had his own article at Ness (character). On 7 December 2014, proposed that it be merged into this article at Talk:Ness (character). He received one comment from noting that several sections in the current page were unfinished, and due to a lack of any objecting comments, he WP:BOLDly performed the merger and redirected the page two days later. Fast forward to three days ago, WP:BOLDly restores the article with some (dubious) sourcing improvements and it would go on to receive a few more edits by  later on. The next day, blocks Skybunder as a sock and reverts all of his edits per WP:BANREVERT. then undoes the reversion (presumably due to the lack of reason for reversion in Bbb23's edit summary, I didn't pick up on Skybunder being a blocked sock until I checked his talk in the process of writing this) which is then reverted again by with reasoning "Unexplained". I caught this exchange in NPP, looked over the draft and history, and not seeing any issues (again, didn't notice Skybunder was blocked) I reverted the article back due to the lack of explanation, leaving the comment "I see no issues with this article, it's well sourced and doesn't have any major obvious problems, either provide a reasoning for overwriting it or take it to AfD." TarkusAB then reverted me again (leaving the page back as a redirect), saying "Really? There is obviously contention about this article. Follow WP:BRD and take the discussion to the EarthBound talk page before re-instating."

Okay, so there's quite a bit of messy history involved here, but now that that's out of the way here's the point I'm getting to: let's split Ness back out into his own article. He doesn't have much coverage on this page (only two fairly outdated paragraphs, mostly on his Smash appearances), he's extremely well known as a Smash character now with the sources to back it up, and the original merge into this was due to the page at the time being partially unfinished, which can be easily resolved. Are there any objections to this? Nathan2055talk - contribs 07:33, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * This is a matter of sourcing. What reliable, secondary source coverage warrants splitting the section to its own article? What needs to be said for a general audience and why wouldn't it be sufficient to say it within the existing section? Looking at the last revision of the character article, it looks more like a coat rack to list trivia about the character and to accrete passing mentions in sources than something that asserts the character's standalone notability from the game that featured him. The substance of this split article would all be repeated from the existing article (the existing Ness section, the EarthBound plot and development info). The only unmerged detail is trivia such as his moves in Smash, his listicle placements, and passing Reception that isn't encyclopedic in the first place: Encyclopedia articles shouldn't have that kind of fluff.  czar  16:02, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Japanese Title
While I will admit, that the mentioned Japanese title in the lead does read in English as Mother 2: Gyiys Strikes back (Note the spelling of "Giygas") in the ingame title card, I don't think it's an official title for Mother 2 on the grounds that the most official Japanese material surrounding the game reads it as MOTHER2 ギーグの逆襲 (Mother 2: Giygas' Counterattack), and not Gyiys Strikes Back. Also that the English translation changed the title to The War Against Giygas, and no official western material, that I know of, is acknowledging the game as EarthBound: The War Against Giygas. So I don't think the title card name should be acknowledged here. Sarujo (talk) 19:57, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree since while it’s true that one in game screen did use War against Giygas neither the box art of the main title screen used that subtitle.--65.92.160.124 (talk) 07:15, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
In a section of the article, it was mentioned that Satoru Iwata was one of the returning staff from Mother (1989) that worked on Earthbound. However, in most sources another parts of the article, it was mentioned that Iwata joined the development team mid-development. Can someone help and change this back? Pyracycle (talk) 00:30, 1 May 2022 (UTC)