Talk:East New York, Brooklyn

Citation Needed For Crime Alleged To Have Occurred
Please someone provide some evidence (newspaper article, etc.) of the serious and horriffic crimes alleged to have occurred in this obviously desperate neighborhood.


 * There is no evidence. Those crimes didn't occur there.  The user who added that paragraph, User:24.94.232.164, also put the exact same paragraph (with street names changed) in the article about Milwaukee, Wisconsin. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Milwaukee%2C_Wisconsin&diff=prev&oldid=17835338
 * Moncrief July 4, 2005 18:02 (UTC)

Dramatic Turnaround?
Please clarify:


 * What you mean by "dramatic turnaround." The description of the neighborhood as given is still very bleak; is it somehow better than it used to be?  Worse?  How?  It's not explained.


 * What does "prior to 15 years ago" mean? Do you mean "in the last 15 years"?  "Prior to" means "before."  If the turnaround occurred more than 15 years ago, just say when it occurred. Moncrief 00:22, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * I also don't understand "dramatic turnaround", seems like a misnomer to me. I was born there and my parents moved us out in 1964.

The decline in crime-while perceptible-is not as dramatic as some people would like to portray.


 * The neighborhood is still home to the most crime-ridden, deadliest police precinct in the city, and several weeks after the New York Times' Metro section ran a flattering portrait about the neighborhood-portraying it as the next Park Slope, Williamsburg, Red Hook, etc., in other words, a hub for potential gentrification-nearly a dozen people were murdered over the course of one weekend. Ruthfulbarbarity 01:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

East New York did make a major turn around, this article had to reflect the actions during the 1970"s and the early 1980"s .If you check the crime stats at the 75th prescient, you will see the crime rate has changed substantially. I purchased my home at 389k and the present homes located on Loring Avenue behind the Hip center sold at 759K. Cobble Hill Condo's are going up on Linden Blvd. I see a different light on this neighborhood, a big difference from what the article reflects .If anyone is going to type any information concerning Demographics at least do your homework and stay current with facts. I must clarify what I mean by a major (turnaround) is referring to the late 60's, 70’s and early 80's as compared to the present, just in case I was a little vague. For the family that moved from East New York in the 60's ,they could not be in touch with the present picture because no one would purchase a home in a crime ridden neighborhood for 759k as mentioned earlier.


 * Although crime in the neighborhood has has gone down it is still very high. Most of the housing in the neighborhood does not cost 759k either. That newer market rate housing is bought as an investment by investors and rented out to the community. Most of the newer townhouses built over the years are subsidized and much of the housing is only for the low income demographic. Most of the people rent in this community and cannot afford high prices. People who can afford those prices are not willing to live in East NY. Crime and other social issues are still big problems in East NY. The majority of people living in the community are struggling economically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 07:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Import Export
When and how were the new unfair import-export rates imposed? Did they have a role in the decline of manufacturing? It needs a specific link for the specific law or time, rather than a generic one for international trade. Jim.henderson 21:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Southeast Brooklyn? East New York is located in East Brooklyn
Flatbush Avenue goes to southeastern Brooklyn. Gerritson Beach and maybe even Canarsie are in southeastern Brooklyn. But East New York and City Line are in eastern Brooklyn not southeastern. Jim.henderson 04:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Gardeners Association
I didn't put in the now deleted plug, and agree that it didn't belong as being too much an advertisement. I do think there ought to a link to an advertising site for the association, and have inserted one, hoping someone else can replace it with a better one. Jim.henderson 21:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality and Clarity?
As far as I can tell, the article seems to take an informative and unbiased path at first, but then basically says African Americans and Puerto Ricans vastly increased the crime rate in the 50s and 60s. In the end, this is all to be made somewhat better by the fact the rents have increased and major retailers have shown up in the neighborhood.

Exacerbating this is the fact that the major sections of the article are called simply "Ghetto" and "Rebirth". I see one argument by one city planner, a rebuttal according to NYPD crime reports that I'm sure could be interpreted differently, and an abrupt closer about how though the quality of life has improved, crime is still high.

I feel this could certainly use a rewrite that incorporates the initial "Early History" paragraph, makes a mention of its problems with crime but doesn't intend to connect it to a racial element, and sticks to simple facts about the geography and current makeup of the neighborhood. Bridgetown 23:03, 5 May 2007 (UTC)Bridgetown


 * Yes, it is something of a doom and gloom piece, and maybe my recent elimination of the unnecessary master header exacerbated the starkness of the remaining section headers. Hey, if you think it's dark now, you should look back to last year when the Thibalt doctrine of powerful men and ethnic change wrecking a viable neighborhood was practically the whole article.  I added the more dispassionate 18th and 19th century material which I came across while looking for slightly related railroad matters.  Notice there is practically nothing about the early 20th century; I wish someone would find such material.


 * More important, the "rebirth" section is thin. One could try digging up some sunshine and marmalade material, but perhaps a simple, dispassionate but integrated description of modern life would work better.  For example, shopping, restaurants, entertainment, fire department, schools other than the endangered HS, hospitals, parks, banking, political representatives, etc.  Like, there are a few sentences about the "Gateway" suburban style shopping mall on the Bay with chain stores, but are there any central shopping streets inland?  Any factories still operating?  Understand, I don't know anyone who lives in ENY; I just bicycle through there sometimes with my eyes open on my way to or from Jamaica or Grand Army Plaza or Bushwick or Ozone Park, or read about the neighborhood and once or twice shopped at the mall.  Jim.henderson 06:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Well East New York is a poor neighborhood. Not much has changed. Yes subsidized townhouses have been built on vacant lots and more poor people have moved into rehabilitated residential structures. Yes low income commercial establishments have come into the area reflecting the need due to population density. Some industry in recent years. That's about it though. All other social problems are still there. Crime went down, but it's still high. Everything else has not changed much at all, somethings have gotten worse like poverty. Living cost are higher then they have ever been primarily due to housing expenses. Incarceration, education, teen pregnancy, drug addiction, language isolated families, poverty, crime, overcrowding, homelessness, hunger, all still big problems. Wikiwiki718 (talk) 03:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

As of February 10, 2008
From a NY Times Article, 1 year ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/nyregion/05frisk.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1.

In the 75th Precinct, in the East New York section of Brooklyn, which has the city’s highest violent crime rate and some of its poorest neighborhoods, the police stopped, questioned or frisked someone last year, on average, about once every 24 minutes. Article also states, Last year the department began a concerted push, which included adding officers, to try to reduce crime in the 75th Precinct, which had 28 murders in 2006. In the First Precinct, there was one murder. Here are the crime statistics from one week ago.

Analysis

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs075pct.pdf.

There were 33 murders, 42 rapes, 834 robberies, 675 felony assaults in the 75th's area of responsibility in 2007 (3,250 crimes combined). In 2008 (From 1/1 - 2/10), there has been 1 murder, 8 rapes, 75 robberies, 65 felony assaults, 49 burglaries, 89 Grand Larcenies, and 35 G.L.A (Grand Larceny Attempts?).

Reasonable Conclusion

Some of these numbers are down, while others are up. Overall the numbers are down historically. Looking at the figures and my personal knowledge, I wouldn't classify East New York as a safe neighborhood. I think it would be more accurate to say it is much safer than it has been in the past. It still logs 3 times more crime than Canarsie for instance.'''

'''Stats for all the NYC precincts

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/crime_prevention/crime_statistics.shtml. Angrymansr (talk) 13:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think what people fail to realize is those numbers will fluctuate up and down. Overall murders have been on the up tick in northeast Brooklyn, especially East NY and Brownsville, over the past few years. The problem is East NY contains a very significant pocket of poverty the crime is just an end product. In the end though, that is a hell of a lot of violent crime in such a small area. As for the comparison to 1990 on the compstat site, it's out of date. Why not compare versus the last 3 years? There is a reason the NYPD specifically uses those dates which are the worst on record. First of all most of those early 90's murders were drug related directly correlating to the crack epidemic. Secondly more people live from their wounds today. So yes crime is down in the area versus the peak but still VERY significant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 04:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a lot of crime. There's no other way to spin it. It is a bit odd how the chart shows no consistency to the years it lists. 1990(start), 1995 (5 years later), 1998(3 years later), 2001(3 years later), 2007(6 years later). All those years show a decrease from the period prior. I guess that could be interpreted as selective statistics to show crime coming down. I am curious as to what happened in 2002-2006. Angrymansr (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Homicides in northeastern Brooklyn and the Bronx have been on the rise overall over the past few years. It is also common knowledge in these areas that many other felony crimes on the compstat site are reclassified or downgraded. I personally believe this crime increase is due to slow displacement of low income renters to these boroughs from Manhattan. An overwhelming percentage of affordable housing (low income) is being built in these two boroughs. In Manhattan there is a severe affordable housing shortage which is not being addressed. In Brooklyn this housing is more specifically being built in Brownsville and East NY. Areas like East NY and Brownsville were once full of vacant residential structures. Most have been rehabilitated and now house low income renters. Many lots have been built up with subsidized townhouses and apartment buildings. Market rate townhouses are bought and then rented out. So you have new lower income people moving into these areas, creating overpopulation. It causes tension among the locals, remember these are primarily low income high poverty neighborhoods. A simple way to put it is, some kid from West Harlem moves to East NY after his building is condemned after a suspicious fire. He moves to East NY and becomes a new face. Gets into a dispute with a local and eventually gets killed as events escalate.


 * Also to add on to the level of violent crime in East NY, some of East NY is manufacturing districts where little if anything happens. Usually just theft, mostly from warehouses and vehicles. Also there are some "quieter" blocks which do get effected by the areas overall crime (mostly robberies, thefts, G.L.A.'s) but are not known for extreme street level violence (constant shootings, constant robberies, ect). At the same time you have extremely crime prone areas usually certain intersections, housing developments, certain blocks. So the level of crime geographically is among the very worst in the nation overall, rate wise certain sections have higher then others. The Pink Houses for example with 4,000 people had something like 5 murders in 2005. So overall while crime is a very serious problem across the entire neighborhood some areas are dealing with extreme levels of violence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Main and Subsections
This entry repeats one of the most basic, but common and oft retold, errors about the community which it purports to describe.

The area historically has been the Town of New Lots (the residents separating themselves from those who lived in the "old lots" of Flatbush). The social center of the community was along New Lots Road (later widened to New Lots Avenue), where the Dutch Reform Church long has been located. Farms extended north and south of New Lots Road. The Jamaica Plank (Toll) Road at the north end of the town was a major east-west thoroughfare for the transporation of goods from Long Island to downtown Brooklyn. Liberty Avenue was another less extensive local east-west thoroughfare for which no toll was imposed.

The term "East New York" came into being when a real estate speculator envisioned a residential development which would rival New York (City). He bought farm land in New Lots, Bushwick, and Brownsville for the purposes of this speculative venture centered at what is now the Broadway Junction. For marketing purposes, he self-named the proposed development "East New York" to entice those who lived in New York (Manhattan) to move eastward. Given financial conditions at the time, his venture failed and he sold most of the land he purchased back to the farmers. He later developed Woodhaven, Queens which had the necessary existing industry to support his proposed housing.

The Town of New Lots later was designated the 26th Ward and subsequently Brooklyn Community District #5.

Different sections of the Town of New Lots subsequently were known by subcommunity names. When residential development did eventually come to New Lots, the northwest corner was referred to by some as "East New York". The northeast corner was referred to by some as "Cypress Hills". The area adjoining Queens county was referred to by some as "City Line". The southeast corner was referred to by some eponymously as "The Old Mill". There were no definite boundaries for these names within New Lots. For much of the early part of the last century, the southern part of New Lots was sparsely developed, consisting of the marshy areas adjoining Jamaica Bay.

The term "East New York" became more codified by the United States Postal Service. New Lots was divided into two postal zones. The western zone was designated 11207 and the Post Office named "East New York". The eastern zone was designated 11208 and the Post Office named "New Lots". The dividing line of the postal zones is Ashford Street.

As the entry notes, New Lots underwent a seismic population shift with those with any historical recollection of, and connection to, the historical community relocating elsewhere and being replaced with those without any institutional memory (this phenomenon has been documented in an article about the same phenomenon in sections of the Bronx). Since the northwestern portion of New Lots was the most built up and thus the area in which most of the urban decay took place, media accounts of the events identified the area as "East New York". New residents assumed that this sectional name which they read in the media was the name of the entire area into which they had moved and began erroneously referring to the entire area in which they lived generally as "East New York".

When Starrett City was proposed, it was marketed as "Brooklyn, the way it used to be" (before urban decay). It was believed that for the project to be successful it needed to be marketed as completely separate from the name "East New York" which was synonymous with urban decay. The new residents began to refer to their section of New Lots as Starrett City.

Towards the end of the twentieth century, in return for developmental rights in Manhattan, a builder was required to construct low income housing. The location of the project was designated to be in the southwestern part of New Lots. Again, to separate the new development from the perjorative name "East New York", it was named "Spring Creek" - from the name of the body of water that once existed nearby. For a time, it became fashionable for some to identify the area south of Linden Boulevard as "Spring Creek", even those areas which had no physical relationship to Spring Creek - which was an offshoot to the larger body of water, viz., the Old Mill Creek.

However, the "Spring Creek" housing development over time began to experience the same social issues that long had been associated with "East New York". As new development was proposed south of Linden Boulevard, it was felt necessary by some that a new marketing name needed to be created which had none of the negative connotations of either "East New York" or "Spring Creek". The name chosen was "Gateway". The name is based on the location of the Gateway National Recreation Area, parkland in the southern portion of New Lots along Jamaica Bay, (the parkland is separated from New Lots proper by the Belt (Shore) (POW) Parkway).

Despite the names given to the various sub-communities of New Lots they remain just that, sub-communities. Historically the name of the entire area is and always has been New Lots.

Wikiprjd (talk) 17:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * To me, this history of the Township looks like an excellent addition to the New Lots, Brooklyn article. Only a little belongs in the ENY article, which should stick mainly to the areas called ENY from the Pitkin era through the 20th century.  And hey, I don't see that we have even a small biography of Pitkin despite the important avenue and other namesakes.  Jim.henderson (talk) 16:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

EAST NEW YORK HAS 173.000 INHABITANTS ( CENSUS 2000 ) AND NOT 90.000. TO CORRECT THIS WRONGED NUMBER, THANK YOU !!!!! 151.75.45.10 (talk) 18:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Black and Puerto Rican Discrepancy?
African American and Puerto Rican is a better term. Black and Puerto Rican is confusing, since most Puerto Ricans share similiar African ancestry with African Americans. The difference is culture and nationality usually, not race. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.123.215 (talk) 02:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You are misinformed my friend. Puerto Ricans do not all share ancestry from Africa. The island has a collection of different people from different parts of the world, it is very diverse like Brazil. Most people are primarily of European ancestry. The culture is very outside influenced; primarily Spanish but some African, some Indigenous and very Americanized. There are many different races in Puerto Rico, most have strong White genetics even if mixed. In the end Puerto Rico is not even a country but a territory of the USA, once part of greater Spain. You cannot say Puerto Ricans and African Americans are one in the same, that would be incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.1.37 (talk) 10:39, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

EAST NEW YORK HAS 173.000 INHABITANTS ( CENSUS 2000 ) AND NOT 90.000. TO CORRECT THIS WRONGED NUMBER, THANK YOU !!!!! 151.75.38.215 (talk) 00:18, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

POV in the Ghetto photo caption
The photo shows boarded up homes. The caption read "many abandoned homes." This is POV. I wondered when the photo was taken, for today, properties often change hands and undergo improvement, albeit with some decline since 2008. The Neimiah picture is more representative of how the neighborhood looks today.Dogru144 (talk) 17:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Removal of links to Nehemiah Corporation
There are plenty of programs nation-wide that have "Nehemiah" in their names, but not all of them are associated with the Sacramento-based Nehemiah Corporation of America. Because the statement in the text (about Bloomberg's 2006 announcement) was unsourced, it was not possible to verify whether the Sacramento-based corporation was involved here. I removed the links, but otherwise kept the text unchanged. NewYorkActuary (talk) 21:46, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * This Nehemiah seems to be related to "Spring Creek Nehemiah" rather than Nehemiah Corp. epicgenius (talk) 02:41, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Its the company run by East Brooklyn Congregations. Tdorante10 (talk) 02:45, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

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Reference to Jamaica Pass
The reference to Jamaica Pass links to the article "Jamaica Pass" ... which has been redirected to here. This circular link should be broken, no? And was there not enough information about Jamaica Pass to merit its own article? I came here from a "Jamaica Pass" link, seeking to learn its nature and exact location. Eplater (talk) 22:18, 16 September 2023 (UTC)