Talk:East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment/Archive 2

Section on government / national media failure to cover the situation?
Section title here essentially sums it up. The glaring lack of national media coverage and government silence in the week following the disaster has become quite a talking point, and could use a subsection in the Impacts and Reactions section. TSwanyIRL (talk) 02:42, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * What would be the point of claiming that nobody's talking about it? It seems to have become a talking point on a lot of anti-establishment social media profiles types, but it's not matched in the reality of the situation--- there's plenty of discussion of it in the corporate press. Biktor627 (talk) 07:58, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe they haven't been reporting daily as in the Turkey/Syria earthquake zone where more people have died, but they are covering it. New York Times: In Ohio Town Where Train Derailed, Anxiety and Distrust Are Running Deep Nearly two weeks after a train carrying toxic chemicals derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, confusing messages from government officials have frayed locals’ trust.
 * This was the lead story last night February 15 on the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt.
 * More coverage is surely coming when the government investigators release their official report(s). – wbm1058 (talk) 11:46, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was watching when NBC finally dove into it. I remember cheering from my bedroom because it shouldn't have even taken that goddamn long. TSwanyIRL (talk) 00:45, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I keep reading Wikipedians say something isn't covered, but what is it? Specifically, I mean. Did people die, was it an inside job, did the train carry something it shouldn't have? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:10, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I know, not a forum and all, but this opinion video should give you a sense of the concerns here. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:30, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't want to a watch a video on the off chance I sense whatever you do, I want the specific fact or facts They don't want us to know. Why is that so hard? InedibleHulk (talk) 23:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Compare and contrast national media coverage
Don't blame me, I voted for Tim Ryan (sent his campaign money, too). Bet he wouldn't have waited over a week to talk about this from his Senate seat. – wbm1058 (talk) 13:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Democracy Now “Bomb Train” in Ohio Sickens Residents: Railroad Cutbacks, Corporate Greed Led to Toxic Disaster
 * Fox News interviewing JD Vance


 * This isn’t the place to be airing your personal political views. We deal in neutrality here. Bjoh249 (talk) 06:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Excuse me. A momentary lapse in self-control. – wbm1058 (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

The national media are covering this way more than they're following the 2022 Nord Stream pipeline sabotage. I just skimmed that article for the first time to get an overview on that that I didn't have before now. – wbm1058 (talk) 19:23, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

There should be an additional section added about the refusal of the media to cover the on-going news blackout in Palestine. All of the MSM reporters are focused on reporting on the train derailment and the pollution instead of talking about how they are refusing to cover the train derailment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.141.232.152 (talk) 10:18, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Notability
There are an average of 1,700 train derailments in the US per year. Why does this one have a wikipedia page and others don't? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.94.36.175 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The content and effects of the derailment are also of interest. A train that falls on a forest is of different notability than one which falls on a person. Blackcat415 (talk) 11:46, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oops, I meant tree in a forest. Got my metaphors mixed up. Blackcat415 (talk) 11:47, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * What is/are the content and effects of the derailment and why does that differ from a typical derailment? 31.94.36.175 (talk) 11:48, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * How many of those 1,700 derailments result in mandatory evacuation of all residents within a mile, and "controlled" burns of chemicals? wbm1058 (talk) 12:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh so there are chemicals involved and environmental concerns, and that's why it's notable? Maybe we should change the name from "train derailment" to something that reflects its notability then? 31.94.36.175 (talk) 12:51, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * See #Requested move 10 February 2023 which will become an "elapsed listing" in a few hours, and feel free to comment there if you haven't yet. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:42, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * "Controlled" shouldn't be in quote marks. It's a real word. The tankers did not explode in a BLEVE, so the burning was controlled. If the flammable chemicals hadn't been burned in a controlled manner and instead allowed to explode while inside the tankers, then you could say it was uncontrolled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.141.232.152 (talk) 10:22, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, semi-controlled is probably the better term. If it were fully-controlled there would be no worries about air pollution. – wbm1058 (talk) 22:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The notability guideline for events is WP:NEVENTS. This event clearly passes those criteria, while most train derailments do not. VQuakr (talk) 17:59, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm a person that tends, probably to my detriment, to be somewhat cavalier about chemicals, because I deal with them daily. However, with the stuff involved here, I would be getting myself and my family very far away from this. 24.51.192.49 (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

East Palestine Derailment
Local weather patterns key! 2600:1009:B018:FDB0:5D46:25D1:8CF2:EF09 (talk) 03:16, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Name change specifics
The initial vote to move the page to a new name failed, but consensus seemed neutral at best about the current name. What do you think would be a more fitting name for the page, before somebody starts the next vote/discussion? TSwanyIRL (talk) 00:55, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * From my comment above: "Support some kind of change that indicates that this is more than "just" a train derailment. This RM seems like it'll be a morass to close because of all the changes in the proposal so I'll just outline my thinking: 1) I would like some indication of the chemical aspect since that seems like the most damaging factor of the incident. 2) Do not make it more specific than Ohio. The effects appear to go beyond the town of East Palestine and into PA and WV so Ohio is good for now and perhaps consider a more inclusive regional name in the future. 3) Alternatively, naming it for the train company (Norfolk Southern) may be a good option to consider. It appears that working and safety conditions at the company played a significant role in the derailment." Axem Titanium (talk) 08:23, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

This article definitely needs to be renamed. At this point this is an embarrassment. ɱ (talk) 03:04, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "Embarrassment" is more accurate than "disaster" and more emotive than "derailment", but doesn't quite have the mainstream backing "chemical spill" does. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:20, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Given that there has now been a second 2023 Ohio derailment, it seems to me that there is a greater need now to change the title. ProfessorTofty (talk) 05:58, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not really. Derailments happen all the time and there's nothing noteworthy about that derailment other than its timing. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 03:15, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. As of now, the second derailment seen in Ohio by Norfolk Southern in Springfield differs from the first derailment by the company in East Palestine because none of the derailed cars in the second incident had any chemicals, but it is noteworthy to mention that some of the cars that did not derail did contain hazardous matter. VelvetTroutFish (talk) 17:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Railway Safety Act of 2023; housing cover study; EPA radius expansion inquiry
[Three-in-one topic so I can avoid creating three separate sections]

The first is a senate bill introduced March 1. The text available on the senate cosponsors' webpages has no number, and the numbered bill at congress.gov has no text (yet), so I assume that they're the same thing.

The second: "NTSB Examining Rail Car Component in East Palestine Derailment", regarding housing covers.

Third, "Rep. Kelly calls on E.P.A. to expand one-mile radius around East Palestine, Ohio train derailment site to help Western Pennsylvanians" This hasn't actually happened yet, so it probably shouldn't go in the article right now, but it's worth watching. Mapsax (talk) 03:28, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Relevance of the Nemadji River train derailment
An editor, User:FFM784, deleted reference to the 1992 Nemadji River train derailment. To answer their question, yes, there are reasons that we need another link to another accident in "See also." 1) The derailment triggered the largest mass evacuation in the US from a transportation accident and the largest evacuation anywhere in the Midwest. 2) The accident was followed in less than three years by a settlement in which the Burlington Northern RR agreed to hundreds of thousands of dollars to investigation of the type of rail derailment of the sort in the Nemadji River derailment. Furthermore, the BN committed to purchase ultrasonic rail inspection cars.

In sum, the issues that arise in the cross-referenced article related directly to concerns that arise in the East Palestine derailment: derailment, technology to detect derailments, a railroad's nominal commitment to tackle derailment issue and the evacuation of thousands.Dogru144 (talk) 03:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC)