Talk:Ebla/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Dudley Miles (talk · contribs) 13:27, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I will take this one. A couple of initial comments.
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The bibliography should be in the order of the author's surname.
 * Yes check.svg Done .--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2014 (UTC)


 * If a work in the citations is not in the bibliography, its date should be shown. Dudley Miles (talk) 13:27, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Comments
 * I have copy edited extensively. Revert anything you are not happy with.
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 09:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Lead

 * "Starting as a small settlement in the early Bronze Age" I would add an approximate date.
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 09:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "The second Ebla was a continuation to the first Ebla" Continuation in what sense - the same dynasty of rulers.
 * Yes check.svg Done .--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 09:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "the pantheon was mainly north Semitic and included deities exclusive to Ebla." The "pantheon of gods" would be clearer.
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 09:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

History

 * "the early habitation period is designated (Mardikh I) and ended in 3000 BC, the city continued to grow" This is unclear. Do you mean that the city continued to grow after 3000 BC? Until when?
 * Yes check.svg Done --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 09:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * More to follow. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * " The dates for the earliest kings known through the lists of Eblaites kings, implies that the first royal dynasty began with the building of G2 which was apparently a royal palace built c. 2700 BC" I do not understand this. How can a list of kings imply that a dynasty started with a particular building.
 * Yes check.svg Done Hamblin Dynasty Ebla .--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:22, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I would move the five archive kings to the archive period section. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:05, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:22, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * What are the dates of the archive period?
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Did the first destruction end the archive period or occur during it? This is not made clear.
 * Yes check.svg Done --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Was the destruction just of the palace or of the city?
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Many readers will not know what high dating means. You could show it as High (early) dating. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I have revised the first paragraph of the archive period based on your comments. Does it look OK?
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:47, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * OK done. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "It is attested that Ebla defeated Mari in the 25th century BC, king Kun-Damu was mentioned in the archive two generations before Igrish-Halam, which suggest that he was a contemporary of king Ishtup-Ishtar of Mari (who is also mentioned in the tablets) and therefor, Kun-Damu can be placed in the middle of the 25th century BC and was probably the king who defeated Mari." I think this goes into too much detail and is difficult to follow. How about: "In the middle of the 25th century BC, King Ishtup-Ishtar of Mari was defeated by Ebla, perhaps by King Kun-Damu, whose reign over Ebla can probably be dated to this period."
 * Ishtup-Kun--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 10:56, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * : . --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Kun-Damu is shown 3 different ways - also as Kun Damu and in the king list at Kum-Damu. You need to make them consistent.
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "The period after Kun Damu saw a political weakness during the reign of Adub-Damu" What does this mean - civil war, defeat by Mari? Dudley Miles (talk) 14:26, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Ibrium redirects to Ebla. You need to either replace the redirect with a stub article about ibrium or delete the redirect in the Ebla article.
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:32, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "Ibrium is attested campaigning against Abarsal during the time of Arrukum" Does this mean that Ibrium campaigned while his father Arrukum was vizier? Who was Arrukum or was it a town? Armi and Abarsal and ibal are also not explained. Were Nagar and Kish vassal states?Dudley Miles (talk) 19:52, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:32, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "Akkadian hypothesis: although the identification of Ebla with the Ibla mentioned by Sargon of Akkad has been challenged,[30] Prof. Trevor R. Bryce attributed the act to king Sargon or his grandson Naram-Sin.[31] Giovanni Pettinato at first supported the Naram-Sin theory,[32] then proposed the high dating theory, while the discoverer of Ebla Paolo Matthiae supported the Naram-Sin theory then shifted to the Sargon theory as more probable.[33] Sargon claimed that Dagon gave him Ebla while Naram-Sin denied his grandfather ever controlling Ebla, he wrote that No king whosoever had destroyed Ebla before him." I cannot understand this paragraph. Can you make it clearer? Dudley Miles (talk) 19:47, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 22:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 22:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "According to Astour, the high dating offer a problem that there is a gap of more than a hundred years between Eannatum and Pettinato next candidate Lugalzagesi." I do not understand this sentence.
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:36, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "Astour points that the geopolitical map presented in the archives of Ebla does not correspond to the political situation during the time of Naram-Sin, and regarding the Sargon theory, difficulties arise due to the fact that Sargon mentions that his campaign in the north happened after his conquest of Sumer, while the geopolitical map presented in the tablets of Ebla indicate an era that precede Lugalzagesi (pre-Sargonic) sack of Kish." I am confused how these comments relate to the destruction - the political situation presented in the Ebla tablets at the time of the destruction was different from that in Naram-Sin's time? And similarly that the Ebla tablers indicate that the destruction took place before the sack of Kush? Also there is no reference. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:19, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "a text that date to the seventh year of Amar-Sin mentions a messenger of the Ensí (Megum/Mekim) of Ebla" The date given for the destruction is 2050-1950, but the article on Amar-Sin dates him 1981–1973, which is incompatible with destruction before 2000. Do you know whether there is any explanation for this apparent contradiction? Could the incident date to the third kingdom? Dudley Miles (talk) 10:52, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:25, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I think you need to explain that you use the middle chronology - perhaps by a footnote to "he site is most famous for the Ebla tablets, an archive of about 20,000 cuneiform tablets found there,[2] dated to around 2350 BC." in the lead. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:11, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:22, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "The first identified King is Ibbit-Lim son of Igrish-Heba" So why is not Igrish-Heba the first known king? Dudley Miles (talk) 21:25, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:42, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * "The first identified King is Ibbit-Lim son of Igrish-Heba, a basalt votive statue of his bearing his inscription was discovered and helped identifying Tell-Mardikh with Ebla in 1968,[60] Ibbit-Lim designated himself as the Mekim of Ebla,[54] this led Astour, David I. Owen and Ron Veenker to identify Ibbit-Lim with the pre-Amorite Megum of the Third Ur era,[61] however the names of the king and his father are Amorite, therefor (according to Giovanni Pettinato) its assumed that the inhabitants of Ebla were predominantly Amorites which is consistence with the knowledge about most of the inhabitants of Syria during that time." 1. helped identifying Tell-Mardikh with Ebla in 1968 - this is not explained. 2. to identify Ibbit-Lim with the pre-Amorite Megum of the Third Ur era - why? 3. inhabitants of Ebla were predominantly Amorites which is consistence with the knowledge about most of the inhabitants of Syria during that time - why does this make him 3rd kingdom. Is it known that the Amorites were not in Syria during the 2nd kingdom period? 4. If several leading scholars identify ibbit-Lim as 2nd kingdom, then it is too definite to say he is 3rd - perhaps "The first known king may have been Ibbit-Lim." Dudley Miles (talk) 22:54, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Mattie Ibbit-Lim Third Ebla--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:15, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no reference for most of the third paragraph of 'Economy'. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:33, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:45, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


 * No ref for first paragraph of Yahweh, or for the last parts of the two paragraphs of discovery. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I will pass this now. I am particularly interested as I visited Ebla when I went to Syria on holiday in 2010. You are obviously good at research, but you need to get articles in a much more advanced state before submitting them for GA. It took far more work than I expected, and far more than a reviewer would normally undertake. If you have a friend who can work with you that would be best, but you can also try WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors and Peer review. Dudley Miles (talk) 12:03, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)