Talk:Ecchi

Page naming and actual name of the term
Why is the page located at Etchi, when the word is read and pronounced Ecchi?

The first line of the article claims Ecchi is incorrect, but not only provides no evidence, but is countered by The Otaku Encyclopedia where 'Etchi' is not listed, and 'Ecchi' is directed to 'H' (which it is a pronounciation of) where the term is described. Common useage of the term as 'ecchi' eclipses 'Etchi' by far.

The page should be renamed Ecchi per the reading of katakana and book source. Dandy Sephy (talk) 03:24, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears like Ectchi redirects to Ecchi, so no problem there. I don't really think "Etch" is a Japanese language sound, it's more like an English speaker who doesn't know how to pronounce it properly.  Should we even redirect that?  Is that a common way to spell it?  -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 08:31, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * By far, the most common romanization is "ecchi". No other romanization comes anywhere near it as far as sheer numbers. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 08:41, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The page was only moved recently, without any actual explanation and justification by that user anyway. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 14:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Ecchi is most common even French speaking world. The French Dico Manga (Manga Dictionary) has an article for Ecchi. --KrebMarkt 15:32, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation
Does anyone know if it is pronounced or ? In other words, is that first c pronounced as /k/ or is it silent? — trlkly 01:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much. So it means the consonant is doubled, so the pronunciation is.
 * Dear anime-lovers, please use serious dictionaries (Kenkyusha's New Japanese-English Dictionary) and Japanese handbooks and follow the rules that are obligatory in our Hepburn transcription. Write properly: ETCHI. --Seibun (talk) 18:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * /ɛtʃi/ this is double consonant. Small "tsu" before consonants doubles them as for instance in "yappari", "matto".--Seibun (talk) 20:07, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I do take your point that we are using the wrong romaji, as MOS:JP says we use Revised Hepburn, which would use etchi instead of ecchi. However, the page itself should remain at ecchi, because article naming policy says we use the most common spelling by English speakers. — trlkly 13:38, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, exactly, ɛttʃi is correct. There are a lot of such misunderstandings, mistakes and discussions in many languages because Japanese anime and manga produce avalanches of neologisms, artificial names, mixed Japanese-English vocabulary and so on. That is why sometimes titles of anime movies are written on posters in two languages. One more problem for students learning Japanese: this language changes very quickly. As you know, consonant "c" does not exist in Japanese. That is why ecchi is a nonsense. Referring to etchi and small "tsu" I would like to quote "Handbook of Japanese Grammar" by Harold G. Henderson: " ... used in Japanese words to indicate that the consonant sound in the next folowing kana symbol is to be duplicated... For example, the kana used in writing: massugu, are ma, tsu, su, gu or katta, are ka, tsu, ta". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seibun (talk • contribs) 17:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Give me a reliable source that specifically states that etchi is correct, with a explanation that fits your claims. The lead makes a controversial claim that is not supported by a reference, on the other hand 'ecchi' can be supported through reliable sources (something I can do later). As it stands right now, your opinion is being backed up by OR, not sourced claims regarding the word itself. You can debate the correct way to romanise the word as much as you want, but without sources for the specific word you won't close the matter. Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The article will remain Ecchi regardless your flawed argumentation because it's the most widely in use spelling not only in English but also in French and by a far margin. --KrebMarkt 16:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * As noted by KrebMarkt, "ecchi" is (by far) the most common romanization for this word. So, despite it being technically an incorrect romanization per revised Hepburn, it will remain at this title per WP:COMMON. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 17:23, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Answer: Etchi (エッチ - indecent; lewd; frisky; sexy; (Suru verb), Kenkyusha's New Japanese-English Dictionary, Koh Masuda (Editor in Chief), p. 243. Basic dictionary for serious people (professionals) who really want to learn Japanese. Go to the nearest Japanese Faculty scholar and ask him. Do not learn from primitive posters, anime-lovers opinions, and manga magazines. Start to learn from serious handbooks, genuine experts and dictionaries. The main problem is that all above notes have been written (and topic discussed) by anime fans who have never touched Japanese language. Show me your "reliable sources". "Widely in use" means thoughtless copying somebody's mistakes. To be in majority does not mean to be right--Seibun (talk) 17:59, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * By the way: not sukebe but sukebei 助平 すけべい  lewdness; lewd person; lecher  --Seibun (talk) 18:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You seem to be confused on how Wikipedia operates - policy dictates that the threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth, and this interpretation is generally held to be true of content as well. While it is true that the correct revised Hepburn romanization is "etchi", as far as reliable sources are concerned, it is generally not verifiable as a majority usage. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 20:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You may be right but the die hard reality is that the widest used spelling is Ecchi not a single of your arguments can shake this truth. Wikipedia should not be used to define or rectify what is the norm. --KrebMarkt 20:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Greetings from matcha. You undermined the rules of Japanese grammar, principles established by univerisities etc. Congratulations.--Seibun (talk) 08:21, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're not going to make productive edits, please stop coming here and harassing people when you already know what the answer is going to be. This is the second time you've brought up this point, and it's unlikely the most common spelling of "ecchi" is going to change anytime within this decade, so please just stop. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 09:38, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Whether you believe that "etchi" is the "correct" romanization is irrelevant simply because there are several ways Japanese terms can be romanize. Hepburn-style is generally the one we use on Wikipedia unless a different romanization style is already in common use. In fact WP:MOS-JP specifically states, "Japanese terms should be romanized according to most common usage in English, including unconventional romanization of titles and names by licensees and words used frequently in English." It is indisputable that "Ecchi" is far and above the most common romanization of the term. —Farix (t &#124; c) 11:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * While you're insisting on making unreasonable requests, perhaps you would like to argue that Wikipedia should use "Tōkyō" instead of "Tokyo"? 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 23:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I have a suggestion regarding this matter: while the global usage of ecchi is undeniable and therefore should be kept in the article, we could add a little more description to the lead about it actually being an incorrect Hepburn-romanization of etchi, which may satisfy those who wish to see this noted.--Pip25 (talk) 10:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The lead already lists "etchi" as one of the romanizations of the word, and there's really no need to launch into a discussion of alternate romanizations beyond that. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 16:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Ecchi is a correct spelling according to Hepburn and Etchi is incorrect please do not cite it as anything more than a common misspelling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.41.155 (talk) 22:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Challenging "English usage" section
I'm going to challenge the entire "English usage" section because it is entirely unsourced and clearly based on the personal views of the editor(s) who wrote it. In particular, the list of "Typical features" does not appear to have any bases on reliable published sources. —Farix (t &#124; c) 18:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Ecchi as a genre
The ecchi "genre" is more of a fan invention instead of one recognized by reliable sources. Almost all reviewers from reliable sources flat out avoid the term. At most, they will refer to the amount of "fan service" an anime or manga contains. But they never equate fan service with an ecchi genre. Also, Anime and Philosophy by Josef Steiff and Tristan D. Tamplin ISDN 978-0-8126-9670-7 actually describes it as a style instead of a genre. —Farix (t &#124; c) 14:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm aware of that fact. But in 90% of time or even more it is more or less referenced as a genre. I would go so far to call it a mixture of style and genre, since actually no one is able to draw the line. If you want to correctly describe it as a style, then i have no problem with it (in german style and genre are closely related terms). But it should also be mentioned that it is referred as a genre, even it might actually be wrong, but it's the common case. --Niabot (talk) 14:54, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I got trough some sources and found that in German language ecchi/etchi is usually referred to as an genre. In English literature it's no so clear. I found both descriptions. As genre and as a style. A typical example for "genre" is Gender and Sexuality in Shoujo Manga: Undoing Heteronormative Expectations in Utena, Pet Shop of Horrors, and Angel Sanctuary page 67. It calls it a subgenre of anime and manga. I guess we have no straight line between both terms. Maybe both should be mentionend equally. --Niabot (talk) 18:42, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Worldwide view
Are there other countries that use the term ecchi ora word that means the same? I have a hard time seeing Ecchi just being confined to Japan. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:13, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Etchi is used in Japan to denote something as dirty, indecent or naughty. The inheritance of this slang term isn't very clear, but it is in close relation to the word hentai (the word!) in its original meaning. The term was adopted as a slang term into the otaku culture and with a softer meaning. As anime got to some extend popular inside the western world, the word was also transfered over as ecchi. The western world meaning is somewhat reduced. Here it usually relates to half nude, suggestive scenes in close relation to fan service in anime and manga. Thats why it is also called "rampant fan service".
 * Since the otaku culture isn't limited to japan itself, it has a different meaning as the original word in Japan. In Japan itself we have two possible usages. The original one, which is close to "hentai" (seen as rather hard insult) and the otaku slang term meaning, which is fairly equivalent to the western usage (more teasing then insulting). --Niabot (talk) 17:56, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I made some additions to the article. My English isn't the best. I would bid someone to correct my spelling errors. --Niabot (talk) 12:10, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Credit to original writers
Hi, in the French wikipedia, if an article is translated from a different language, there is a note somewhere in the page. The actual page is mostly based on the French page that was updated around may 2009. As the main contributor to the actual French page, I think it would be nice to say that that this page is based at least partly a translation from French. Anyways, I must say that I like the different examples that are used in the English page.

I also want to comment what Farix said in "Challenging "English usage" section". As you may know, ecchi is a fan made word, and most serious author don't use it. When you find it in encyclopedia, it's not really detailed. I did included as much examples of anime or manga for every statement when I made the French version.

Gdore (talk) 08:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for pointing this out - I've added Translated page above. --Malkinann (talk) 21:43, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Lead image
What happened to the lead image? Because this article seriously needs one. —Farix (t &#124; c) 21:07, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, the image down there was the lead image. But this is a hard one, what image can represent this topic best? —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  15:11, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I moved the picture back to the lead for the lead image as there was no evicence linkiung it to the "Western usage" section. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I suspect it was a western usage because it is drawn by a German? —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 11:09, 9 September 2012 (UTC)