Talk:Eccles, Greater Manchester

Article fix requests
The article could benefit from a uniform presentation. It drifts between history and the current situation without clear separation. The article needs to say what the town is today, and how it got that way.

For example, the original Manchester Ship Canal was replaced (but when?) by another aqueduct (but is it still there?) Similarly, it was an important industrial center, but now, what is it?

There's some dicey history: "Eccles first appears in 1200"? Does that mean the town didn't exist before then? Statements such as "The early history appears to have been uneventful" are vague -- Does that mean no battles were fought there? Nothing notable happened in the town until the 16th century? Or when?

It would be interesting to know why the Home Secretary abolished a celebration.

The "Toponymy" section needs rewriting. (Or deletion.) Why would one particular town be named for its church...when many towns had churches? What were the Anglo-Saxons doing -- renaming a town that already had a name? In answer to this: even when Christianity became the dominant religion of England, not every town or settlement had a church. This was the case even into the 17th century CE. So an actual church building would indeed be a noticable feature. This doesn't confirm or contradict the theory that the place name originated as a late or sub-Roman Christian community.

Although probably no one questions the first railway accident happened there, statements such as Eccles having the first motorised fire engine seem...somewhat surprising...and could use a citation.

24.130.18.213 (talk) 08:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to request the pronunciation. Does it rhyme with freckles? 38.115.185.13 (talk) 15:10, 6 March 2010 (UTC)HelenChicago
 * Yes Parrot of Doom 15:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Are the Dark Drab pictures supposed to be ironic?
I'm from Canada and always wanted to visit Manchester, ...was in London but never made it up to Manchester.

Over the many many years since, I've heard many haters from the U.K. blab on about the drabness and desolation of Manchester and surrounding area. I'm guessing the pictures posted here are meant to support these ides?

Get off your arses get out out there and take some pictures on a bright day, so we can see some of those Gorgeous Industrial/ Victorian buildings...Especially the town hall...what's up with that dark picture?


 * Eccles is in Salford, not Manchester. ;-)


 * I take your point though, those pictures do look a bit grim. I'm sure we could do better. --Malleus Fatuorum 02:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The pictures were taken under the prevailing light conditions on the day. I'm looking out of the window now, the weather is no different.  Unless someone pays me some money to cover my costs, I'm not going to take more.  Mind you this is a collaborative project, you could always take some pictures yourself... Parrot of Doom (talk) 09:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

anything?
"The early history of Eccles appears to have been uneventful." Wasn't there a sign that read "Before 1745 absolutely nothing of interest happened here." LOL Derekbd (talk) 11:09, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Demography and Population data
Just as a quick query - there's a load of demographic data using addition for all the council wards combined. Wouldn't it be easier to use the Urban Sub-division (settlement) data, where everything for the town of Eccles is in one place? It would still be interesting to leave the ward-based data in there as well to compare areas of the town to each other.

I've also updated the population table to use the Urban Subdivision data for post-1971 censuses. Fingerpuppet (talk) 11:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That sounds good to me - I've come up with population figures by adding the 3 wards of Eccles constituency together but frankly I'm out of my depth on these matters as I barely understand the geography and politics of it. Its all a bit of a mystery to me.  Do I have the figures I entered in the table right? Parrot of Doom (talk) 12:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, the data table's right, but I suspect we'll need to truncate it back to 1901.


 * What data should we put into the Demography section for the whole town? There's obviously total resident population (and by gender) as well as topics like age structure, ethnic groups, marital status, religion, economic activity, industry of employment, qualifications, travel to work etc etc etc. Fingerpuppet (talk) 13:00, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I was going to use national statistics information and add such information into the Economy section under the population table (this was recommended to me in an FAC review but it conflicts with other city articles that have such data in Demography). I have added a fair bit of information from the Salford City Council Ward Profile documents already, and will add a table comparing ethnicity/religion. Parrot of Doom (talk) 13:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your edits - it's more than I can do. I'll leave the table open for a bit just in case I find any more statistics that can be used, if not I'll truncate it to 1901-2001. Parrot of Doom (talk) 16:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem - I'm not finished yet! I just need better access to some census tables than I can get from my current location and I'll add more overall data for the whole town. It might take me a couple of days, though. Fingerpuppet (talk) 16:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm looking to do a "Eccles compared" box, and to me the most logical comparisons are Eccles (the town) to the GMUA to England & Wales, as they're all available in the same set of data. Now, I notice that the other GM "compared" boxes are to the relevant borough - so do people think that I should follow that convention or go with my own thoughts? Fingerpuppet (talk) 07:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

notable peopl

 * Mayo Clinic founder William Worrall Mayo was born in Eccles.
 * Mathematician, astronomer and atmospheric scientist Professor Sydney Chapman, FRS (1888-1970) was born in Eccles
 * Mathematician Professor Nick Higham, FRS grew up in Eccles
 * Littlewoods Founder John Moores was born in Eccles

I've put this here while the GAC is pending, I'll reinsert them when I find out more. Parrot of Doom (talk) 10:11, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Roman Eccles

 * "The village may have been founded during the Diocletianic Persecution in the early fourth century, by refugees from Manchester (Mamucium)."

Do we have anyone later than Johnshton who addresses the possible Roman origins of Eccles? Recent (2000s) excavation on the vicus (civilian settlement) at Manchester has revealed that it was abandoned by the mid-3rd century (unusually the fort outlived the civilian settlement). This more recent research makes Johnston's theory of Eccles Roman origins sound unlikely. Unless the "refugees" were soldiers, which also seems unlikely as Mithras was far more popular in the Roman army than Christianity. Also, the penalty for desertion was death. Nev1 (talk) 15:10, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Good books on the area aren't forthcoming. I've looked around the local libraries and found very little except what is already here.  There may be more at Salford's main library (wherever that is). Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, what I've said pretty much constitutes original research - although I think the latest research effectively disproves Johnston's theory - so we'll just have to go with what the available sources say. Nev1 (talk) 18:43, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you have a link to the Roman find, you could add a line that effectively disputes the claim (or casts doubt upon it) and that wouldn't be original research. Is this related to the dig that has been going on near the Medlock?  I saw something of it on the telly a while back, people were getting very excited about a new find that confirmed something-or-other (can't think of the right word but I do find it interesting all the same!) Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you're probably thinking of the Roman altar (pagan, late 1st century) that was found recently in central Manchester. According to Gregory (page 190 in the book ) the civilian settlement was probably abandoned by the mid-3rd century. In fairness, Manchester has turned up potentially some of the earliest evidence of Christianity in Britain: a Roman Sator square. I'll add something to the article. Nev1 (talk) 19:10, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Done. What do you think of that? Nev1 (talk) 19:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me, and allows people the opportunity to research the matter for themselves, rather than leaving them with incorrect info (which may have been the case). Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

General Universal Stores?
In the Economy section, we have General Universal Stores. Doesn't this mean Great Universal Stores? If so, Shop Direct Group and Shaw National Distribution Centre would possible warrent a mention for greater clarity (as well as WP:BTW). --Jza84 | Talk  23:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good spot, I've changed that. I'm a bit too tired to comment on the rest so I'll leave that for tomorrow. Parrot of Doom (talk) 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Landmarks
I think some thought should be given to including a small section about “Eccles Cross” – both the physical stone cross and the wider meaning of “on Eccles cross”, a phrase that I was brought up with and take to mean somewhere in the immediate environs of the cross (the cross being a meeting place at the very heart of the town). I understand the present stone cross is a replacement for the original one that was damaged during the Second World War (by a lorry hitting it in the blackout rather than by a bomb!) but this is merely a story I heard through the family and I was hoping for some more definitive detail in this Wikipedia article.

A further minor point – Morrison’s store is described as being “just outside the town centre.” I think that by any measure it is very much inside the town centre, not least that it is just across the road (50 metres away using Google Earth measuring tool) from the afore mentioned Eccles Cross.

109.154.79.237 (talk) 17:41, 1 July 2010 (UTC) DJH


 * Eccles cross sounds interesting. I contributed much of the content toward this article and so I may have come across it, I can't remember.  What you need to do is visit the library and have a look through the local history section.  If you can find mention of it in one of the books there, make a note of that book's title, and the page number(s) that mention the cross, and then add what you read to the article.  If you're not sure how to do it in Wikipedia, I can sort out the citation and book references for you. Parrot of Doom 18:02, 1 July 2010 (UTC)