Talk:Echosmith/Archive 1

Sydney
Could someone PLEASE find a reliable source for her birth year? Nyth83 (talk) 18:21, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I see that she has 1997 as her birth year on her Facebook page but don't want to use that as a reference. Nyth83 (talk) 21:00, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Middle names
While the boys' duplicate middle names are interesting (and slightly amusing), could someone find some good reliable sources? I don't feel like metrolyrics.com is a good reliable source. I see that Noah posted on twitter on Aug 12: "People ask me the same questions a ton, so here's your answers. My middle names are Jeffery david Joseph, I'm 6'1, and I play bass. Wamm" Sydney confirmed the Grace Ann on twitter: Twitter Nyth83 (talk) 11:12, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Comparison to Ellie Goulding
This one actually made me laugh. Can we get a credible source for saying Sydney has been compared to Ellie Goulding, still laughing over here. Apparently ONE reviewer said the production aspect was similar to Ellie Goulding and to be honest the reviewer isn't even a credible person. 74.108.45.68 (talk) 18:00, 15 September 2014 (UTC)JDV

Genre
We really do not need to edit war over this. They are not a Rock band. They are pop and on an independent label. Nyth83 (talk) 00:29, 15 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Find a reliable source that says they are pop. SputnikMusic is not reliable. And it even says in the article they are signed to Warner Bros. Records. And another thing. They hit US rock charts. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 00:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Have you listened to their music? They are definitely NOT a rock band. I realize that falls under original research but if you feel so strongly that genres HAVE to be sourced, we should find a source that supports the actual style of their music and not a lump category that a music publisher sticks them in. Nyth83 (talk) 13:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I do listen to their music, and they have rock elements, and just look at Sydney Siroeta. Her look shares elements of a rock band. And it's their record label site, pretty reliable. Thank you for providing a source. The reason I feel sources need to be provided is because something like this happened before, on the Drake Bell article. That article, since creation, said Pop Rock and Alternative Rock was his genre, and it was accepted till just recently. I found sources, but found Pop Rock and Rockabilly, not Alternative Rock. If you can find a source for the other genre on Echosmith, be my guest and add it. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The source was already in the article, I just moved it and created a name for the second use. The problem with the Warner site is that it only has five categories to lump the artists under: Alternative, Hip Hop, Pop, R&B, & Rock. I don't agree that they should be under rock but they may not really fit any of those other overly general categories either.  If you look at the articles List of music styles and List of popular music genres, there is such a bewildering array of styles, sub-styles and genres that it is no wonder that there is constant debate and confusion on so many of the artist articles.  Even that second article has the genre Indie pop listed in the section under Rock rather than the Pop.  There does not even seem to be any agreement on whether style and genre are interchangeable terms.  The article Music genre just barely scratches the surface of the issue of music classification.  Too much for me to worry about.  As I stated in the beginning, not something worth an edit war. Doesn't make the music sound any different.  Nyth83 (talk) 22:53, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Birth dates
In light of the persistent vandalism on the members birth date, I am adding a reference list of the correct dates on the the talk page here as vandals never seem to look at or edit talkpages.


 * Graham (25)
 * Sydney (27)
 * Noah (28)
 * Jamie (31)

The dates are in the age template.  Nyth 63  18:25, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Chart
Why is "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day" listed when there are no rankings?  Nyth 63  01:48, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

City of origin
Listed as both Toluca Lake and Chino. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.71.213.202 (talk) 22:32, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Birth dates and middle names
I have removed the birth dates and middle names of the band members per WP:BLPPRIVACY. Let's not expose people to the risk of identity theft unless there are multiple, very reliable sources that have already reported this information.- MrX 14:37, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I restored the information. Birthdates are normally excluded only if the subject is relatively unknown or objects.  Sydney includes her birth date on her Facebook profile.  A vast majority of biographies on Wikipedia include birth dates in the first sentence of the lede including Jimmy Wales' Not including this information with not prevent identity theft as that information is available elsewhere.  Nyth  63  15:35, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You can't do that. If the band's website links to the social media profiles where these social posts have been made, then they can be used, but they have to be cited correctly in the article. If not, then we must have some other way to establish that the social media profiles belong to the BLP subjects, such as a listing in an ironclad source. Let's continue the discussion on the article talk page.- MrX 15:38, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Where do you find such a narrow rule about sourcing? There is no reason to presume that this and this do NOT belong to Sydney. The twitter account is linked from the band's website.  Also Noah's, Graham's, and Jamie's. Jamie confirms his birthday here. Graham confirm Noah's birthday here.  Would you consider this SYDNEY SIEROTA CELEBRATES 18TH BIRTHDAY BY REGISTERING TO VOTE to be a valid source?  Nyth  63  16:59, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * From WP:DOB: Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object. The key phrase is sources linked to the subject. The echosmith website links to the twitter accounts so they meet the criteria for a valid source.  Nyth  63  17:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * As I have already said, social media profiles, and posts by the owners of those accounts, linked from the band's website are acceptable and I won't object to re-adding the birth dates provided that you add citations to those profiles (or posts) that actually have the birth date. Previously, you linked to a song lyrics, which I found very puzzling.- MrX 17:33, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see a link to a song lyric anywhere.  Nyth 63  17:50, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I removed it when I removed the birth dates- MrX 18:23, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I was not the one that originally included the birth dates and the arbitary removal of the dates by another editor borders on vandalism. You appear to feel strongly about privacy almost to the point of POV pushing.  My read of the policy at WP:DOB is that only reason to remove such information is if the subject requests it or if they are relatively unknown.  Nyth  63  17:56, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Unsourced BLP content can be removed by anyone. When the content is contentious, it should be removed by anyone. Obviously content that potentially violates someone's privacy would be a candidate for removal.- MrX 18:23, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Also your claim of 3RR exemption is rather dubious per quote from your policy link: What counts as exempt under BLP can be controversial. Consider reporting to the BLP noticeboard instead of relying on this exemption.  Nyth 63  18:05, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It's moot since I didn't violate 3RR, but I stand by my reasoning. BLP content must be properly sourced, especially personal details like birth dates.- MrX 18:23, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Claims about birth dates are the types of information that there is no disagreement that need sourcing and removal is completely appropriate. --  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  01:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

That metrolyrics source was in the article prior to the edit by Jax 0677. I could not find in the history who added it, but it may have been intended to show a source for him being the drummer rather that his birthday. I rostored Sydney's middle name per PROPER source already in the article.  Nyth 63  18:41, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Found sources for middle names and birth dates (but not years). Re-added valid SOURCED information  Nyth 63  19:03, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * What on earth is going on here? The birth dates have been in the article for almost a year, and yet in one day, FOUR different editors decide to remove the SAME information?  It is relatively easy to find sources so why does every one just delete it WITHOUT looking for proper sources?   Nyth  63  00:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * "What happened " is that inappropriate crap in one of the 4,000,000 + articles went unnoticed for over a year. then, once it was brought to experienced editor's attention THEY ALL realized that it was inappropriate and acted to remove it per WP:BLP. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  01:53, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Please give a definition of inappropriate crap. If it is about trivia that would be a poor augment as wikipedia is nothing more than an immense collection of trivia.  I am going to keep repeating this policy until someone can LOGICALLY explain why this particular article should be an exception to all of the other BLP's on wikipedia.  From WP:DOB: Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources....  Those sources were added and yet editors are still removing the information.  Why? And please give an explanation that would also explain why the DOB should then be left in an article like Lindsey Stirling.  There is very selective target made of this particular article that does not appear to have been made to any other BLP that I am aware of.  Nyth  63  03:42, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * "inappropriate crap" would be for example the birth day and month without the year.  That is meaningless trivial crap that has no place in an encyclopedia, although it might make a good fan page.  --  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  04:42, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * 1. I searched through wikipedia and could not find a policy anywhere adressing "inappropriate crap". Methinks that perhaps this is POV.
 * 2. Could not find anything in a policy or guidelines anywhere addressing use of dates without years. Could you provide a link?
 * 3. There was only one version of the page with out the years. The version that existed for the past year and the version after that contained the years.
 * 4. Nobody is still addressing the or justifying deleting source material here.
 * 5. MrX stated above As I have already said, social media profiles, and posts by the owners of those accounts, linked from the band's website are acceptable and I won't object to re-adding the birth dates provided that you add citations to those profiles and yet after I added re-added the dates with the citations, new editors found in necessary to step in and delete them again.
 * There is no consensus here as no one is giving a good explanation as to why the dates were removed after the citations were added.  Nyth 63  11:07, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Birth dates are almost always limited to biographies and only if they can be reliably sourced. In an article about a musical band, birth dates are trivia and contrary to NOTFANSITE. It seems clear to me that you are the only editor insisting on this content against the objections of four other editors. CONSENSUS applies.- MrX 13:32, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Finally, a clear logical argument against including sourced information about the birthdays. Unfortunately, the link to the WP:NOTFANSITE page does NOT mention birth dates anywhere or even include the word 'birth' anywhere in the entire article so your above statement is still subjective.  Much press has been made about Sydney's youth as she was only 16 when they recorded Cool Kids.  So is a mention of her age still trivial in this case? The orphaned citation for her age is actually still buried in the article, so why is her age not included? Or perhaps at least as separate mention of the feat somewhere in the article? I had to move another citation that ended up out of place after that piled up mess of edits.   Nyth  63  18:14, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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The Departure of Jamie
The first paragraph states that Jamie is no longer in the band but the way it's phrased makes it seem almost like he died. "following the departure of eldest sibling Jamie in late 2016." The external link being referenced clearly states that he's leaving the band so he can focus on being a dad. This should definitely be reworded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.125.43.70 (talk) 03:55, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

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The most emotional song they ever had
Hello, excuse me, I'm a fans of rock music. Should I say that Echosmith was a rock band because they do rock elements with indie pop feel (similar to Giant where they do rock elements with melodic feel or Air Supply do rock elements with soft rock feel). Do you know, from every songs by Echosmith since their debut with Talking Dreams to Inside a Dream, what the most emotional song they ever had ended with Sydney Sierota singing reaching the highest vocal notes and ended with "you"? Thanks. Wisnu Aji (talk) 20:42, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe "Let's Love". Unfortunately, Sydney Sierota did not reaching that although the lyrical content of this song was ended with "you".
 * "I've been saving my soul for someone like you." Wisnu Aji (talk) 21:07, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

"Josh Murty" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Josh Murty. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Richhoncho (talk) 17:04, 27 October 2019 (UTC)