Talk:Eclipse 500/Archive 1

NT
Isn't it still NT? What part runs on uClinux? re. "The aircraft's electronic control systems were originally designed around a Windows NT variant operating system. This concept has since been superceded by a ColdFire RISC based system which uses a uClinux kernel." What, exactly, does "electronic control systems" refer to here? I would assume that the flight controls are still via traditional cables. Are we talking about the FADEC? Or the Avidyne avionics? If the writer was referring to the Avidyne intergrated flight deck (at least the MFD), the system still runs Windows NT. I refer you to a recent interview with Avidyne CEO Dan Schwinn at http://www.aero-news.net/. In response to the question "At one time you ran on the NT kernel?", Mr. Schwinn says "All of our MFD stuff runs on embedded NT." So what part runs on uClinux? See http://www.aero-news.net/news/featurestories.cfm?ContentBlockID=e14a3aa2-4191-4980-b601-e1a9ab88de87&Dynamic=1. See also http://www.aero-news.net/news/genav.cfm?ContentBlockID=127dbb72-d6fb-46b9-ae26-a9a96e1bde47&Dynamic=1 for links to all six parts of the interview. CConrad 03:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

POV
"far cheaper than any existing corporate jet (the closest comparable is the still-in-development Cessna 510 Mustang, projected to cost approximately twice as much when introduced in 2006)."

I really don't like this sort of mentioning in an encyclopedia. It's a selective interpretation of facts used to favorably portray the E500. A reader should never think "wow, this is a great product" from reading an encyclopedia article; that's a sign of POV writing I think. "closest comparable" is even arguable, as Cessna claims that the Mustang does not compete with the E500. I'm removing the lame comparison; analysis like that belongs in a magazine or newspaper article, not an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.166.141.94 (talk) 05:00, 10 January 2006


 * The fact that, if completed and certified, it is projected to be much cheaper than any other corporate jet, is highly relevant to the article. It's basically the Eclipse's defining feature.  The point with comparing it to the Mustang was not to imply that the Eclipse is the Mustang's equal in terms of capabilities, merely that the Mustang is the cheapest executive jet from any of the established manufacturers.  I'm rephrasing and putting back in. -Robert Merkel 00:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * How about mentioning the fact that the price point on the Eclipse 500 is cost based, rather than market based? This has been mentioned by Vern several times, and goes to show the difference in pricing strategies between Eclipse and other aircraft OEMs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.216.26.211 (talk) 22:08, 18 February 2008


 * I agree. Lots of this article reads like a marketing brochure or a PR Newswire article. e.g. "the price transitioned to" instead of saying they raised the price.  And that weird blurb with one of the purported owners gushing about it like he's trying to sell one... Ordlab (talk) 12:28, 20 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The term "the price transitioned to" doesn't seem to appear in the article. Can you point out where you saw that? The owner quote is there to provide balance as the aircraft got so much negative press, like the third quote there, which is about as negative as you can get for an aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 12:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay, I think you were referring to "price of the Eclipse 500 would transition to $2,150,000". I agree that is "marketing speak" and so I have fixed that. - Ahunt (talk) 12:48, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Rutan ancestry?
I got to see this up close and personal today, as it was at Mojave, in my hangar, getting ready for some crosswind landing tests. Impressive aircraft. According the the chief pilot, the aircraft design originated with Rutan's V-Jet II for Williams. It was thus originally designed to be a composite structure. Rather ironic that it has morphed into a leading-edge-technology aluminum construction. If successful commercially, aluminum structure once again may be seen as having definite advantages over some composites in some applications. Anyway, I don't think my interview with the pilot qualifies as a reliable reference, so I'll research more...but if true, this aspect should definitly be brought out in the article. Akradecki 06:45, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Researched this, found a bunch of info, so I've written a page on the V-Jet II, expanded the Williams International page and expanded and organized this article. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes in the rewrite. Akradecki 05:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I've flown in the plane and have a comment about the "1st" v "2nd" claim.. According to the FAA registration, the Mustang in Ca is registered as experimental and operates under a temporary cert. The Eclipse 500's first plane in CA is regestered under the "standard" category and is "ready to go". In addition Eclipse has the next five planes also ready for release. In fact number two has been carrying owners on demo flights since late Sept.

I am also really bothered by the "1st" v "2nd" claim here. Encyclopedia entries should not be an advertisement for either the subject covered OR any related subjects. It really seems like the introduction to the Eclipse 500 should be more general and not some sort of victory lap for anyone (including Cessna). The claims for "first" depend upon some complicated processes that should be relegated to the production section. If it is O.K., I am going to cut the section from the top discussing the "1st" and "2nd" claims and put it in the discussion of the larger production and certification discussion. I think that is where it belongs to avoid POV issues. comment added by DocMara 06:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no problem if you would like to move it, but it actually is more important, and more encyclopedic than you might realize. History shows us that sometimes being second to market can doom a product to never catching up, although on some occasions, being second is a distinctive advantage (ie, DC-7 vs L-1049). Oh, and by the way, I really appreciate you posting your proposal here first...too many editors don't show that kind of respect to the rest of the community.  AK Radecki Speaketh  01:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll look at crafting language that reflects that. I completely agree that it is information important enough to include in the description, but feel that history has yet to judge on what is or not important out of the possible distinctions that could be pointed out about the plane (my earlier issue with equating amenities with toilets-it's important, but only time will tell HOW important this is). There is a great deal of controversy and healthy competition about framing the discussion of VLJs/microjets, and I just want to be sure that we contextualize these things carefully. I'll wait to see how others weigh in before I make the edits, but I feel uncomfortable importing language that Eclipse/Cessna/DayJet/Diamond/Honda/whoever would use in their press releases without context (or without a definitive answer from history-the switch in engines should have been fatal to Eclipse if history is any guide, and that has not yet been borne out). Thanks for walking me through this process.DocMara 19:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)DocMara

For some really good dirt it's amazing that the manager at Eclipse in charge of manufacturing was hired away from Cessna, and in June 06 quit Eclipse for personal reasons. Now he's in charge of the Mustang program for Cessna. 75.44.18.20 06:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * FWIW, the first concept was called "Pronto". Don't know when the name changed to Eclipse 500, but Pronto was the name given to Rutan's design.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.216.26.211 (talk) 22:09, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Can't print this page
Firefox can't do a print preview of the page, it gets stuck trying (100%CPU). IE is able to do a preview, but when the whole page is printed, the printer stopped at page 5 of 8, and displayed an out of memory on image. All the images's size are fairly small, so I don't know what's wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.168.111.95 (talk) 00:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Are the engines tail mounted?
I seem to recall that the engines are mounted forward of the banjo spar in the empennage, therefore it would be an aft fuselage mounted engine rather than a tail mounted engine. Unless there is exception to this, I propose the first paragraph to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.216.26.211 (talk) 22:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Executive Shake Up
Please remember that this is the aircraft page, not the company. Posting information about Vern Rayburn's departure and Roel Peiper's role in the company should only be done on the Eclipse Aviation site.Tiktok4321 (talk) 18:43, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

number of seats
there are not 6 seats in this airplane, only 4 including the pilot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.0.197.11 (talk) 03:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Not correct - the aircraft can be equipped with up to six seats. Of course this doesn't mean that each one will have all six installed. See company specs - Ahunt (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Userboxes
Here are some Eclipse 500 userboxes you can put on your user page:

- Ahunt (talk) 15:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Eclipse 500. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080517201528/http://www.aviation.com/business/080115-eclipse-aviation-investment.html to http://www.aviation.com/business/080115-eclipse-aviation-investment.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:51, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * ✔️ - Ahunt (talk) 18:56, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Eclipse 500. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100515213642/http://www.eclipseaerospace.net:80/eclipse500/operation/performance.php to http://www.eclipseaerospace.net/eclipse500/operation/performance.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 02:42, 13 February 2016 (UTC)


 * ✔️ - Ahunt (talk) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Eclipse 500. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.charterx.com/mediafiles/store/58773/128690199965416915.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 09:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * ✔️ - Ahunt (talk) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Eclipse 500. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081010065206/http://www.dayjet.com:80/DayJetOperations_09192008.pdf to http://www.dayjet.com/DayJetOperations_09192008.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:48, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ✔️ - Ahunt (talk) 16:38, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Eclipse 500. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090116023900/http://www.charterx.com/resources/article.aspx?id=3577 to http://www.charterx.com/resources/article.aspx?id=3577
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091230092709/http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/090820eclipse.html to http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/090820eclipse.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090708051051/http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/c/doc/Design_Appro/Aircrafts/EASA%20Certification%20Information%202009-09%20ECLIPSE%20Model%20EA500.pdf to http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/c/doc/Design_Appro/Aircrafts/EASA%20Certification%20Information%202009-09%20ECLIPSE%20Model%20EA500.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090212150657/http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/on-the-heels-of-easa-certification-eclipse-files-for-bankruptcy-protection/ to http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/on-the-heels-of-easa-certification-eclipse-files-for-bankruptcy-protection/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dayjet.com/DayJetOperations_09192008.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081030032825/http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/ourplane-makes-play-for-former-dayjet-eclipse-500s/ to http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/ourplane-makes-play-for-former-dayjet-eclipse-500s/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.eclipseaerospace.net/eclipse500/operation/performance.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:19, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 10 external links on Eclipse 500. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929084205/http://www.charterx.com/resources/article.aspx?id=2314 to http://www.charterx.com/resources/article.aspx?id=2314
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090116115733/http://www.charterx.com/resources/article.aspx?id=3420 to http://www.charterx.com/resources/article.aspx?id=3420
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080920050240/http://transportation.house.gov/Media/File/Aviation/20080917/SSM.pdf to http://transportation.house.gov/Media/File/Aviation/20080917/SSM.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091223074420/http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc/Design_Appro/Aircrafts/EASA%20TCDS%20EA500%20issue%202.pdf to http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc/Design_Appro/Aircrafts/EASA%20TCDS%20EA500%20issue%202.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120217035209/http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnumsql.asp?NNumbertxt=877PM to http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnumsql.asp?NNumbertxt=877PM
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110531151140/http://www.gama.aero/files/2008_general_aviation_statistical_databook__indust_499b0dc37b.pdf to http://www.gama.aero/files/2008_general_aviation_statistical_databook__indust_499b0dc37b.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110521072354/http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news%2FCUST11208.xml&headline=Eclipse%20Cuts%20Back%20Customer%20Support&channel=busav to http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news%2FCUST11208.xml&headline=Eclipse%20Cuts%20Back%20Customer%20Support&channel=busav
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090227082039/http://www.eclipsejetcare.com/ to http://www.eclipsejetcare.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060322013723/http://www.pilotjournal.com/content/2005/septoct/vlj_turn_short.html to http://www.pilotjournal.com/content/2005/septoct/vlj_turn_short.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723215538/http://www.najet.net/news.php to http://www.najet.net/news.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:30, 24 January 2018 (UTC)