Talk:Eclogue

Removed
Original sentence: "Hesiod's poem is a matter of fact description of the seasonal life of a farmer, relatively sober and realistic; its truer literary descendant is Ovid's Fasti." Removed "truer" because the does not appear to be any comparison. Does someone see the specific intent of the original sentence who can better rephrase it? --Tablesaw 13:29, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

Etymology of "eclogue";
Deriving "eclogue" from the Greek "aix" and "logos" (goat-speech (!)) is pure fantasy; there is not a scrap of linguistic evidence to back it up. Bucolics did not originally refer to the poetry of goatherds at all, in fact, but oxherds. Cf. Richard Hunter's introduction to his editing of Theocritus' Idylls, which I have cited in the main page. Always be skeptical of people who begin eytmologies with "one theory says ... another says," especially those who can't be troubled to cite any sources. Existent80 July 6, 2005 23:21 (UTC) ====

In the old spelling by Alexander Barclay and others, Ecloges are pastoral poems rich in moral fibre.

Perhaps the best explanation of an Ecloge is that provided by Alexander Barclay Priest in his prologue to the "Certayne Ecloges* of Alexander Barclay, priest, gathered out of a Booke named in Latin, Miseriae Cvrialivm, and compiled by Aneas Siluius (poet and oratour) printed in black letter in 1570, which follows:

Prologue

"The famous poetes with the Muses nine

With wit inspired, fresh, pregnant and divine,

Say, boldly indite in style substantial:

Some in Poemes bye (high?) and heroicall,

Some them delite in beauty Tragedies,

Some in Satyres against vices dare carpe,

Some in sweete tonges accordant with the harpe.

And eche of these all had laude and excelience

After their reason and stile of eloguence.

Who in fayre speeche could briefly comprehende

Whose fruitfull matter, men did him moste commende.

And who were fruitflesse, and in speeche superflue,

Men by their writing scantly set a go.

Therefore wise Poets to sharpe and prove their wit,

In homelly jestes wrote many a mery fit.

Before they durst be of audacitie

Tintative thinges of weight and gravitie.

In this saide maner the famous Theocvite

First Sivacuse attempted to write

Certayne Egloges of speeches pastorall,

Inducing Shepherdes, men homely and rurall,

Which in playne language, according to their name,

Had sundry talking, sometimes of mirth and game,

Sometime of thinges more like to gravitie

And not exceeding their small capacitie.

Most noble Virgill after him longe while

Wrote also egloges after like maner stile.

His Wittes proving in matters pastorall,

As he durst venture to stile heroicall.

And in like maner nowe lately in our dayes

Hath other Poetes attempted the same wayes:

As the most famous Baptist Wantuan

The best of that sort since Poetes first began.

And Franuncis Peruarke also in Italy

In like maner stile wrote playe and meryly.

What shall I speake of the father auncient,

Which in briefe language both playne and eloquent,

Betwene Alathae, Sewstis stouve and bolde

Hath made rehearsall of all the storues olde,

By true historyes is teaching to object

Against bayne fables of olde Gentiles sect.

Beside all these yet finde I many mo

Which have employed their diligence also,

Betwene Shepherdes, as it were by fable,

To write of matters both true and profitable.

But all their names I purpose not to write,

Whch is this maner made bookes infinite.

Nowe to my purpose, their workes worthy fame

Did in my young age my heart greatly inflame.

Dull youth beicheing, my selfe to execite

In such small matters, as I durst enterprise

To hyer matter, like as these children do,

Which first use to creepe, and afterwarde to go.

The birde unused first flying from her nest

Dare not adventure, and is not bolde nor prest

With winges abroade to flye as both the olde,

For use and custome causeth all thing be bolde:

And little cunning by craft and exercise

To perfect science causeth a man to rise.

But as the Payntere can sure his craft attayne,

Such forward fashion transfourmeth he in bayne.

But rasing superflute, and adding that both want,

Rude picture is made both perfect and pleasant.

So where I in youth in certayne worke began,

And not concluded, as oft doth many a man:

Yet thought I after to make the same persite,

But long I missed that which I first did write.

But here a wonder, I fortie yere save twayne

Proceeded in age, founded my first youth agayne.

To find youth in age is a problem diffuse,

But nowe heare the truth, and then no longer cause.

As I late turned olde bookes to and fro,

On a litle treatise I founde among the mo:

Because that in youth I did compile the same,

Egloges of youth I did call it by name.

And being some men have in the same delite,

At their great instance I made the same persite (prerequisite?).

Adding and bating where I perceived need,

All them beliving which shall this treatise rede,

Not to be grieved with any playne sentence

Rudely convayed for lack of eloquence.

It were not fitting a beard of man rucall

To speake in termes gay and rhetoricall.

So teacheth Horace in arte of poetry,

That writers namely their reason should apply

Wete (with?) speeche appropring (appropriate?) to every personage,

After his estate, behavour, with and age.

But if that any would nowe to me object

That this my labour shall be of small effect,

And to the Reader not greatly profitable,

And by that maner as bayne and reprovable,

Because it maketh onely ve(x)iation

Of Shepherdes maner and disputation.

If any suche reade my treatise to the ende

He shall well perceyve, it he thereto intende,

That it conteyneth hath laudes of vertue,

And man infourmeth misiuing to eschue,

With diverse hourdes and sentences morall,

Closed in shadowe of speeches pastorall,

As many Poetes (as I have sayde before)

have used longe time before that I was borne.

But of their writing though I ensue the rate,

No nome I chalenge of Poete laureate

(Barclay had a running feud with John Skelton).

That name unto them is mete and both agree

Which writeth matters with criositee.

Mine habite blacke accordeth not with grene,

Black betokeneth death as it is dayly sene,

The grene is pleasour, freith lust and idlite,

Then who would ascribe, wxcept he were a foole,

The pleasant lauver unto the morning cowle.

Another rewarde abideth my labour,

The glorious light of God my saviour,

Which is chiefe shepherd and head of other all,

To him for succour in this my worke I call,

And not on Clio nor olde Melpomene,

My hope is such of him ayded to be

So to accomplush my purpose and entent

To laude and pleasour of God omnipotent,

And to the profite, the pleasour and the mede,

Of all them which shall this treatise here and rede.

But to the Reader noee to returne agayne,

First of this I will thour be certayne,

That five Egloges this whose treatise doth holde,

To imitation of other Poetes of olde.

In which Egloges shepheardes thoul mayst see

In homely language not passing their degree,

Sometime disputing of courtly misery,

Sometime Tenus disceatfull tirany,

Sometime commending love honest and laudable,

Sometime despising love false and deceuable,

Someime despising and blaming avarise,

Sometime of (w)arre abhoring the outrage,

And of the same time the manifolde damage,

And other pleasure which that them reade or heare."

Where the words are unclear as to meaning the best guess has been made and it is hoped that someone with a deep interest in Alexander Barclay's works will provide an improvement. Yet, written in his youth and certainly before being printed in 1570, the eloquence of what constitutes an Ecloge (Eclogue) is clear.


 * Printed by the Spencer Society in 1885

209.4.42.240 17:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)Sidi Mahtrow

This entry needs a great deal of work.

Verification
The article as been tagged per WP:V since 2015 and it is high time the mixture there of bare listing and original research was addressed. I have made a start on the first and the last sections and will return to clear up the rest during the course of the next few days. Sweetpool50 (talk) 16:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)