Talk:Eco-capitalism/Archive 1

Merging Eco-capitalsim and Blue Greens articles
Hi all,

I think the Blue Greens article should be merged into this article, Eco-capitalism. As far as I can see, the articles are virtually identical, except that Eco-capitalism is further developed. This merger was suggested on the Eco-socialism talk page, as I have also suggested merging Red Greens into Eco-socialism.

Eco-capitalism is essentially a better term describing the ideology that Blue Greens adhere to - in my opinion, this merger would make things more coherent.

What do you all think? If no-one has a problem (or no-one replies), I will merge the articles after 5 days.

Aled Dilwyn Fisher 20:38, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose: The other article is about a political movement, this one is about an economic theory. SB Johnny 00:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

SB Johnny - while I see your point, I think the similarity of the articles is reason enough to merge them. Blue Greens mentions support of "free market principles to achieve environmental aims", whereas Eco-capitalism is just that and the article discusses the idea of the relation between the environment and free market economics. I think the Blue Greens article would make far more sense as a section within the Eco-capitalism page, taking the form, as you mention, of describing Blue Greens as the political movement that comes from the economic theory of Eco-capitalism. Aled Dilwyn Fisher 15:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Blue greens worldwide
I know in the previous blue green articles there has been a list of blue-green parties worldwide I think this is relevant to the topic and should be placed back in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.79.117.138 (talk) 03:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Clarifying Eco-Capitalism
Hello,

I stumbled on this page without any background in this type of theory. I was interested by the name of the theory itself but I found that the brevity of the page made it difficult to understand. Thus, I propose that this page be expanded upon to include information from references that I have found to be effective in explaining eco-capitalism. Some of these references include: 1. Rogers, Heather. "The Greening of Capitalism?" International Socialist Review. 2. Roos, Jerome. "Eco-capitalism: A Dream within a Dream?" Roar Magazine, 31 Oct 2010.

Please feel free to let me know how you feel about these works. I'm not sure if I understand eco-capitalism the way previous authors of the page did. Thank you! Celinanguyen (talk) 01:01, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Eco Capitalism Implementation
I will talk about real world examples of Eco-capitalism and possible ways it could be further implemented.

here are some sources i am considering using

Ingebritsen, Christine. “Europeanization and Cultural Identity: Two Worlds of Eco-Capitalism.” Scandinavian Studies, vol. 73, no. 1, 2001, pp. 63–76., www.jstor.org/stable/40920278.

Hopwood, B., Mellor, M., & O'Brien, G. (2005). Sustainable development: Mapping different approaches. Sustainable Development, 13(1), 38. Retrieved from http://ezproxy.library.arizona.edu/login?url=http://search.proquest.com.ezproxy1.library.arizona.edu/docview/218640387?accountid=8360

Vincent, Andrew. Modern Political Ideologies, Wiley-Blackwell, Malden, MA;Chichester, West Sussex, U.K;, 2010.

Offerman5 (talk) 07:16, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Capitalist approaches to addressing climate concerns
Eco-Capitalism is stipulated to address climate issues. Thus, some content on how Capitalism could approach the issue would be helpful. A source I'm familiar with is by Bill McKibben, "A World At War: We Need To Literally Declare War On Climate Change," in which McKibben rights about capitalistic industrial approaches to addressing climate change similar to industrial mobilization in the 1940's. here is the link: https://newrepublic.com/article/135684/declare-war-climate-change-mobilize-wwii

This article could then be neutralized and countered by a perspective from Elliot Sperber, who points out flaws in McKibben's article. These opposing viewpoints would combine for a neutrally balances section describing the future use of Eco Capitalism. http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/22/clean-green-class-war-bill-mckibbens-shortsighted-war-on-climate-change/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdeweerdt (talk • contribs) 18:52, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Eco Capitalist/free market environmentalist thinkers
I am going to elaborate on the main theorist in the field of eco capitalism. The two most notable eco-capitalists or free market environmentalists are Terry L Anderson and Jonathan H Adler.

these are the sources I am thinking about using so far http://sabio.library.arizona.edu.ezproxy4.library.arizona.edu/record=b3486558

http://sabio.library.arizona.edu.ezproxy4.library.arizona.edu/record=b4002258

Anderson, Terry L., and Donald R. Leal. Free Market Environmentalism, edited by Terry L. Anderson, and Donald R. Leal, Palgrave Macmillan, 2001. ProQuest Ebook Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com.ezproxy4.library.arizona.edu/lib/UAZ/detail.action?docID=307800.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Yandle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_L._Anderson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_H._Adler

any further suggestions or advice are welcomeAcooper227 (talk) 03:58, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Acooper227 (talk) 02:43, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review
The article is off to a great start so far. I think it will be helpful to add notable supporters and opposers of eco-capitalism, because then you can link to their names. Having these people on your page will allow readers to explore the topic even more through those who condone or oppose it. Another thing that would add depth to the page is mention of a youtube video, ted talk, etc. of that nature. Great start so far! The side bar is particularly helpful. Sarahlancaster (talk) 23:16, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

This article does a good job of providing wiki markups to provide additional resources for readers. However, one of the links( wealth) seem to be extraneous. The largest problem with this article is its length. More could be said about the different types of policy instruments or beliefs that are tenants of eco-capitalism, or about the specific eco-capitalist activists. Additionally, more sourcing would be helpful, right now with only three sources the information seems incomplete and may not necessarily reflect a neutral or balanced view of eco-capitalism. Diego Huerta (talk) 19:39, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Review
This article has plenty of potential. Fortunately there is a quality skeleton that will be easily fleshed out with some additional research and summary. Thankfully there is already a wealth of additional reading and related articles to pull from. I think that the biggest weakness this article currently has is the lack of text. There simply is little to take the reader from a very simple and conceptual understanding of what eco-capitalism is to one of more depth. There is almost nothing prompting me to spend time on this particular article page. There are too many related hyperlinks that might just explain the concept to me in another way. The 'Transition to Eco-capitalism section' needs some context to fully understand why these three bullet points are important. Additionally the 'Criticisms" section just requires more information to convince successfully allow readers to make informed opinions. Excited to see where this goes! Good luck! Chris Hatley (talk) 00:13, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

POL 150C2 Peer Review
This article could be expanded greatly upon. The lead section is unclear and hard to follow. Criticisms of eco-capitalism are much further reaching than just not being able to work because of a 'green-driven system'. Overall, this is a good article to flesh out, and I am not sure that my classmates have moved any of their contributions here yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calliandra s (talk • contribs) 00:37, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review (POL 150C2)
I think that a good direction to take this article as you flesh out the changes you are going to make for class is a deeper definition (and historical origin) of the term Blue-greens, and an example of many of these concepts. The definition given for eco-capitalism is a little dense and confusing; a clear example of when in history this occurred, or how it can occur, would do a lot to make this article more accessible to the average Wikipedia user. Also, at this point, it's hard to justify all the "See also" links without more in the article telling how eco-capitalism relates to these concepts. I'm sure you guys have a solid plan for this one and I'm excited to see how it turns out!Astoken (talk) 01:19, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Peer Reviw
≠≠I think this article needs to be vastly expanded. It might be helpful to create more subsections that include the various topics you want to discuss in your article and then build upon each of them. This would provide a neat organization, and allow the information to be more focused and easy to follow. After reading the leading section I have a very broad and general definition of eco-capitalism, but do not feel as though I have any understanding of it. I also think it would be beneficial to expand upon the idea of "blue greens". Sakthikumar arizona (talk) 05:49, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review
Other people have already mentioned that the article needs to be fleshed out more, so I will just focus on specific issues that I think could be addressed to improve the article. The sentence about eco-capitalists' responses to criticisms needs a source and maybe some more background information. Why do they think it is in people's best interest to conserve the environment? Add in a section on current successful eco-capitalism based businesses or movements. Maybe add in a short description of what red-greens are so that people don't have to click on the link. I really like the "see also" section. Lots of potential here! Lscherl (talk) 06:18, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Review
I've added a review to the sandbox page where the revisions are taking place. Hoovern (talk) 06:51, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Negative Externalities & Criticisms of Eco-Capitalism
I'm curious why this article does not describe Eco-Capitalism as believing in the internalization of Externality of environmental impact. That's the key economic theory espoused by Eco-Capitalism, is it not? johndbeatty 23:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Clarifying and Understanding Eco-capitalism:

Hi, Not knowing what Eco-capitalism was before my class project, I am excited to learn more and believe that this page could be strengthened by more information about what it is, where the idea came from, and examples of it in today's society. I came across these books when researching the connection between the environment and capitalism and was wondering if anyone has heard of them before and think any information in them could be included on this page?

1. Sarkar, Saral. Eco-socialism or Eco-capitalism?: a critical analysis of humanity's fundamental choices. Zed Books, 1999. 2. Crist, Eileen, et al. Anthropocene or Capitalocene?: nature, history, and the crisis of capitalism. Edited by Jason W. Moore, PM Press, 2016. 3. Sarker, Saral. The Crises of Capitalism: a different study of political economy. Translated by Graciela Calderon, Counterpoint, 2012. 4. Boer, Tycho de. Nature, business, and Community in North Carolina's Green Swamp. University Press of Florida, 2008.

I am at the beginning of my research and value your opinion on if these are good sources. I have begun reading these books and won't post any information from them on this page until I know for sure they are credible and accurate. Thank you for your consideration -Hailee

Clarifying and Understanding Eco-capitalism:

Hi, Not knowing what Eco-capitalism was before my class project, I am excited to learn more and believe that this page could be strengthened by more information about what it is, where the idea came from, and examples of it in today's society. I came across these books when researching the connection between the environment and capitalism and was wondering if anyone has heard of them before and think any information in them could be included on this page?

1. Sarkar, Saral. Eco-socialism or Eco-capitalism?: a critical analysis of humanity's fundamental choices. Zed Books, 1999. 2. Crist, Eileen, et al. Anthropocene or Capitalocene?: nature, history, and the crisis of capitalism. Edited by Jason W. Moore, PM Press, 2016. 3. Sarker, Saral. The Crises of Capitalism: a different study of political economy. Translated by Graciela Calderon, Counterpoint, 2012. 4. Boer, Tycho de. Nature, business, and Community in North Carolina's Green Swamp. University Press of Florida, 2008.

I am at the beginning of my research and value your opinion on if these are good sources. I have begun reading these books and won't post any information from them on this page until I know for sure they are credible and accurate. Thank you for your consideration -Hailee

I will be adding to Criticisms of Eco-Capitalism to provide a contrast to why it may be a good implication or alternative to just capitalism. The criticism section will also let readers get a second opinion and help the article seem less bias. Authors, scholars, and other people in this field will be used as examples.

A book I found was, Tanuro, Daniel. Green Capitalism: Why It Can't Work. London: Merlin Press, 2013. Print. which offers both support for the fight against climate change but also a challenge to its implications and reasonings for why it may not work.

Another source I found was a journalistic article by Brian Tokar that discusses the myths regarding "green capitalism" and the origins of its opposition. Tokar, Brian. "The Myths of Green Politics." New Politics. New Politics, 2014. Web. 13 Feb. 2017.

Could using Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story" be beneficial to contributing to the criticisms of green-capitalism but from a possible public perspective??

Nlucassi (talk) 01:35, 13 February 2017 (UTC) Nisa L.

Hi, I added some commentary on the criticism of capitalism using the source (4) already provided and a secondary source that addressed the techniques of "conscious consumption"

Silva, Maria das Graças; et al. (2012). ""Conscious consumption": ecocapitalism as ideology.". Revista Katálysis,. 15(1): 95–111 Danwiggy (talk) 22:38, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello,

I think expanding on the topic of negative externalities would be a great improvement to this article. If you are talking this issue, a great person to reference would be Ronald Coase. I also think the criticisms of eco-capitalism can be expanded upon. The issue of how to give value to nature can be explored as presented by academics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aepetkovic (talk • contribs) 06:35, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree that expanding on the topic of negative externalities is a great idea. Although, I'm not sure that the criticisms of eco-capitalism need much more improvement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielbesinaiz (talk • contribs) 04:40, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review for POL 150C2
I think the main problem with this article is simply its length. There are a lot of links to other articles but hardly anything here in this section. (However, I will admit that this might be simply because m classmates have not yet moved their draft onto this page). I also find it strange that while there is a short section on the criticisms of Eco-capitalism, there is no section on the proposed benefits of it. Furthermore, I would recommend going into more detail on what Eco-capitialism is, its history, and what it is a response to. I would also recommend going out and finding more academically minded sources. That all being said, this article seems like a great skeleton to work off of. Cjoswald (talk) 02:26, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Overall I think this article is okay. Make sure you always put the dash between eco and capitalism. It looks unprofessional to switch back and forth. Also, you may want to revise your section on Anderson in the theorist section. Each sentence begins with "Anderson" and it can sound a little redundant. Nice work though! Moss effect (talk) 19:47, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review
I'm doing this late enough to see that this article has come along very well, and I'd like to emphasize the formatting of the page itself. If I had to offer two critiques, they would include lengthening the head of the article, and they're is a group of source all together, and it does not look so good. I believe they are source 5-10. Great job thoughAndrewros15 (talk) 00:44, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review for POL CLASS
Good work with this article. The introduction is very well done. It is simple and to the point. The article structure also looks good although I would probably think that ”Appeal of renewable energy in the capitalist market” should not have its own section. Apart from adding more information and a picture there is little that can be done to improve the work. Great job! There were a lot of good cross-linking with articles in this page, I will be trying to do the same with my article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rafaorozco (talk • contribs) 23:31, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Parity
The Eco-socialism article has a List of eco-socialists' - Could this article develop a 'List of eco-capitalists'? MaynardClark (talk) 16:37, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Adding to the section about the implementation of eco-capitalism
After reading the page I believe it would be helpful to add a couple paragraphs discussing the barriers that long-term infrastructure can pose to a transition to an eco-capitalistic economy and how companies like Tesla are combating this issue. --Rvillap (talk) 08:27, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Paul Hawken
The entry here states that he founded "Erewhon" while in the individual article about him it says he merely aquired it in 1967. Can we fact check this? From waht I gather the company was founded by Aveline & Michio Kushi in 1966.92.2.117.125 (talk) 02:52, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:21, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Celinanguyen, Mdeweerdt, Dlasansky, Hoopesha, Mrab94, RyanRichard, Danwiggy, Nlucassi. Peer reviewers: Aepetkovic, Diego Huerta, Eric112358, Chris hatley, Sarahlancaster, Danielbesinaiz, Cjoswald, Hoovern, Rafaorozco, Moss effect, Sakthikumar arizona, Astoken, Lscherl, Calliandra s, Andrewros15.

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