Talk:Economy of Iran

What gives?
QUESTION: Why is this article written the way it is (i.e. with so many statistics)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.213.240.17 (talk) 19:52, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "BECAUSE IN SUBSTANCE EVERYTHING WILL BE SETTLED BY THE QUESTION OF FIGURES" (Sarcasm?) :-) (SSZ (talk) 01:56, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * apparently NOT ;-) 99.203.24.145 (talk) 17:05, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * "somebody" has been listening carefully... :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.213.244.236 (talk) 01:55, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

"Quantum" economics?
A new model for economics? (when the word "economic program" takes a whole new meaning!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.193.140.58 (talk) January 25, 2016
 * Including "spiritual solution to economic problems" ? 47.17.27.189 (talk) 04:06, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a Baha'i idea, but this is the first time ever that a scheme has been devised that can allow the human SPIRIT/MIND to take control of the economy DIRECTLY locally and globally (through the use of Computer chips/Gates, informational economy, Electronic money, etc.). This work deserves a Nobel prize :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.17.20.247 (talk) 20:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

"The Occult Technology of Power" - The Initiation of the Son of a Finance Capitalist into the Arcane Secrets of Economic and Political Power (p. 16) states that any technological or scientific revolution in the field of economics - which is a major help for mankind as a whole - is a mortal THREAT to "the international Bankers" at the same time (because it will reduce their power if implemented! As such, this scientific discovery that you have posted here is a unique threat to them and they will try to censor you, [including in Iran]. Kindly, Timetravel12 (talk) 17:10, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

..I googled your name based on your discussion with WP foundation director (as per linked court documents in the title above) and I could not find ANY Baha'i remarks or actions either. STRANGE...($5 trillions used DAILY for YEARS against one Baha'i and proven in US court & undisputed by the FBI). STRANGE! Timetravel12 (talk) 13:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * See also here!: "33 in the name and the triangle" & for info, there are also train stations in Iran with massonic symbols :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timetravel12 (talk • contribs) 22:38, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Reason
Please tell a reason https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Economy_of_Iran&diff=980594867&oldid=980453204 Baratiiman (talk) 15:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * This article is rated 'Good' and adding a picture that violates MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE is not an improvement. Pahlevun (talk) 15:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Poverty=Beggar Baratiiman (talk) 16:16, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * With such an interpretation, you had previously added the same picture to the article Fashion in Iran. This is not an important illustrative aid, at all. Please read MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE once. Pahlevun (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * i say it is very very important and i ask you to gain consensus before removing the pic Baratiiman (talk) 16:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:BRD applies here, and inclusion needs consensus. Note that this is a WP:GA. Pahlevun (talk) 16:31, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

you said im harassing pahlevun well you can be of use what do you think of this image in #poverty? your opinion is required Baratiiman (talk) 14:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * What does this image of a woman standing in the sidewalks exactly improve in this article? I am also curious to know how the same picture is in anyway relevant to Fashion in Iran, because you added it to that article too. Pahlevun (talk) 14:31, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

I added it here because it shows poverty but you disagree, i put it in fashion in iran because the title of the photo is "Hijab". OK,You made your point and i made my point now it is time for the two other parties who like to participate to give their consensusBaratiiman (talk) 14:33, 28 September 2020 (UTC) You said this pic is not about the text? the text is about poverty the picture is a beggar do you get it? Baratiiman (talk) 14:41, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree that it's not relevant in a broad topic such as this; nearly every country has some poverty, including most of the countries with the highest GDPs. OhNo itsJamie Talk 15:10, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * it is decided im putting it in poverty in iran there is none Baratiiman (talk) 15:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * No, it's not decided. Wikipedia operates on policy and consensus. You don't have either on your side at this point. OhNo itsJamie Talk 15:50, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * you are speaking of this wikipedia? This wikipedia is not a democracy thank god Baratiiman (talk) 15:57, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur that the image (women in hijab, begging) does not contribute to the article as written. The article mentions that a percentage of the population lives below the poverty level, but there is no referenced mention on the prevalence of public begging. David notMD (talk) 18:07, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

New addition begging
whats wrong with the sentence and the pic since these people said the pic should fit the text i brought the text for the pic.Baratiiman (talk) 15:51, 29 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I added an explanation on your user talk page. The text that was added here is a sentence copied straight from the source with no context – and that is why it reads so oddly. The source (there are two links there but it is the same source) discusses a research study involving a number of beggars in Tehran, which investigated the prevalence of HIV. The sentence "In a survey conducted in Tehran during 2007 to 2008, 4230 men and women beggars were collected by municipality" refers to that study, and apart from the fact that it was copied straight from the source (which is always unacceptable per WP:COPYVIO), it is irrelevant to this article. To try to get around a consensus against inclusion for the picture by trying to find some vaguely related text, just to be able to add the picture to the article, is not really constructive. The images should add extra understanding to the text, the text is not there to serve as background info to the images. --bonadea contributions talk 15:57, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

what say you help this page In 2015 there were 5000 beggars in Tehran almost.https://www.mehrnews.com/news/3735465/%D8%A8%D8%A7-%D8%B4%D8%A7%D8%AE%D9%87-%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%B5%D8%B5%DB%8C-%DA%AF%D8%AF%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A2%D8%B4%D9%86%D8%A7-%D8%B4%D9%88%DB%8C%D8%AF im uploading this pic in wiki common too and then putting in beggars https://www.mehrnews.com/news/3735465/ Baratiiman (talk)
 * How do you know that the photo that's published in mehrnews.com is not copyright protected? --bonadea contributions talk 16:08, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, never mind, I see the CC BY 4.0 notice at the bottom of that page. --bonadea contributions talk 16:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * However, just because the image might be OK to upload to Commons, that doesn't mean it should be added to this article since it doesn't directly illustrate or explain any of the content of the article. MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE still applies. --bonadea contributions talk 16:20, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

i googled beggars prevalqnce for iran got nothing i cant see what is in this.pages https://amp.dw.com/fa-ir/iran/a-45729005 https://en.radiofarda.com/amp/thousands-of-children-forced-to-work-beg-in-the-streets-in-iran/30142546.html Baratiiman (talk) 16:28, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * This addition has been rejected by four other experienced editors. I suggest you drop it and move on. OhNo itsJamie Talk 17:26, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Good article doesn't look like anything to me i suggest you go to pages YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH.in comparison these pages are good articles: Telegram in spanish wikipedia AND THIS PAGE https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ispahan this good article criteria is ajoke for a broken website that is wikipediaBaratiiman (talk) 18:29, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

3 million famlies
because this page is a good article. .As of November 2020 three million impoverished families dont have any transactions in banks https://www.eghtesadonline.com/fa/amp/news-480793  Baratiiman (talk) 11:42, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

I edited Social class in Iran as per above with a source indicating that indeed 3 million people have not been registered with the social security organization. Cheers. Timetravel12 (talk) 22:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I've closed the requested edit template based on the changes made by Timetravel12 above.  Orville talk 07:22, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

USA did not lift most of the international sanctions.
In 2015, Iran and the P5+1 reached a deal on the nuclear program, and it barely removed any international sanctions. Whoever wrote that it removed most of the international sanctions is clearly spreading disinformation.

Sickofthisbs (talk) 14:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Please note, Wikipedia is NOT a forum. If you have any issue with cited sources, you can always ask an editor for a second opinion. 172.58.236.105 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 14:27, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

GDP number
I don't know the subtleties of the meaning of GDP, but see that it varies a lot depending on the source. Recently there have been unexplained edits making radical changes to the number. The linked source is dead. Would someone who know's what's what please update the number and include a reliable source. Thank you, SchreiberBike &#124; ⌨ 19:53, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi. I was wondering if the gdp given is correct or not. But imf states that Iran's nominal gdp has crossed 1 trillion usd in 2021. Here is the link https://www.statista.com/statistics/294233/iran-gross-domestic-product-gdp/ Thanks Swarnendu Roychowdhury (talk) 22:29, 27 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm no economist but I think someone doing data entry at the IMF must have screwed up. According to the IMF, real GDP growth hasn't risen above 5% since 1990 (and was negative not long ago), but... just look at the graph of GDP: it quadrupled since 2019 (which I think is impossible unless you annex a region) (also, pandemic? World Bank says Iran's economy contracted 12% during this time). In contrast, the World Bank has their GDP around USD 200bn and matches their data for growth (note they don't have 2021-2022 data which the IMF would have given on projections). Note also the ridiculousness of the disparity in Iran's numbers in our List of countries by GDP (nominal). GDP and GDP per capita also correlate well with economic complexity, in which Harvard ranks Iran 80th. In fact the only source I've found "confirming" the IMF's numbers is an article in the Tehran Times simply republishing it.
 * I think given this we should base the numbers and claims regarding GDP specifically in this article on World Bank data, instead of using the IMF, until we figure out what's going on. SamuelRiv (talk) 04:33, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree on this. 1,7 trillion Iranian economy simply doesn't makes sense. It is also above PPP. Iran's GDP can't be larger than Turkey's, since their trade volume is almost 1/2 of Turkey's. "the largest in the Middle East in terms of nominal GDP." is misleading as well. Beshogur (talk) 12:52, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Iran's GDP in the first 9 months of 1400 (last 3 quarters of 2021) was reported by the Central Bank of Iran to have been 46,396,889 billion rials (last item). (Link may not be accessible from outside of Iran, but this is publicly available information.). With an average quarterly trend of 26%, the 4th quarter can be reasonably estimated at 20,348,189 billion rials; resulting in a fiscal (March 2021 to March 2022) GDP of 66,745,078 billion.
 * Converting this amount by the approximate mean exchange rate of the year 1400 (250,000 rials per USD) results in about $238 billion USD, which is more or less in-line with the World Bank's estimates. (Constant prices based on 1395 are also available in the CBI source, which would arrive at a GDP of $406 billion. This is closer to the "real" GDP as it does not account for the rial being undervalued in Iran's exchange markets, but it is not too relevant for nominal GDP.)
 * These sources are obviously not definite and the full-year GDP is a homemade estimate, but it is enough to conclude that IMF is suggesting Iran's GDP to have increased by ~600% in one year. This is practically impossible (even with exchange rate hijinks), so I am also in favor of using the 2020 World Bank estimate in place of the current IMF one until further data is released from the Central Bank of Iran, Statistical Center of Iran, or the World Bank. MaxTheDesertMan (talk) 06:25, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * My understanding is the IMF is using the official exchange rate, which is 42,000, for the USD GDP figure. The World Bank disregards official exchange rates where it bears no relation to the market rate. Blorg (talk) 16:35, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well the largest economy in the Middle East makes no sense then. As told, such increase is impossible. Beshogur (talk) 21:37, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Some sources are missing
Someone has removed many sources related to PressTV. While I don’t care who reports economic data (as long as it is correct), I do care they are now missing for no good reason, as all the economic data can be found in other newspapers (including in US economic journals!). If you need to find missing sources revert this article to early 2020 to find them (same holds true for many related articles). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.236.24 (talk) 10:09, 31 March 2022 (UTC)


 * PressTv got banned in the US and the US website shut down. If the links were to the US website they no longer exist. PressTV now has an Iranian based website but I have no clue if articles from a decade or more were recreated there. Either way the site is government run and half the stories are propaganda. The best of the best are the reports on Iran's stealth fighter - the F313. Iran is incapable of reproducing a 1960's era jet engine so half its air force (made up of 1960's or 1970's era US planes sold to the Shah) is on its last legs. If it can't even reverse engineer a 1960's era jet engine, then how likely is it that it can develop a stealth fighter? LOL! 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:CC1:391F:BB5F:8138 (talk) 17:50, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Nominal GDP per capita seems incorect
no way iran has over 20k dollars nominal per capita gdp, the link is missing and according to other sources its only around 5k dollars — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.239.136.209 (talk) 02:55, 19 October 2022 (UTC)


 * There was one report that an Iranian legislator said that 60% of the population was living with an income below the poverty level of around $1,200 US a year and that 30% was living in extreme poverty with income under $600 US a year.
 * Government subsidies for the poor tend to be around $20 a month and there was a report from almost a decade ago that housing had become so unafordable that around 50 people were living in Tehran's graveyards.
 * I give good odds that the article was a creation of a paid to post Iranian. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:1D77:3250:60BB:CE48 (talk) 23:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

GDP number seems made up
The statistic used for this wiki seems to calculate the Iranian GDP using the official exchange rate of the Rial to USD which massively exaggerates the GDP of Iran. This statistic appears to be referenced elsewhere on Wikipedia. Gross domestic product#Nominal GDP and adjustments to GDP

This calculation would mean Iran is on average more prosperous than Turkey, Poland, Russia, China and many other countries. I am no economist but as someone who has travelled to Iran many times I can say this does not feel right. Iran is not a poor country but people in Iran are always talking about how their country's economy is in a bad state and they are always checking the exchange rate of the rial. I fear this article is being manipulated by someone with some kind of agenda. Stuffmaster1000 (talk) 07:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)


 * One recent reports states that 60% of Iran's population lives under the poverty line of around US $1,200 per year and up to half of those live in extreme poverty defined as under $600 per year. The dollar numbers can change rapidly due to the changing dollar rial conversion ratio but are about right for when the report was released.
 * That matches numbers from many Third World nations.
 * https://www.iranintl.com/en/202301025682
 * According to official figures released by the interior ministry, in total, around 60 percent of the 84 million Iranians live under the relative poverty line of whom between 20 to 30 million live in "absolute poverty". In 2010, for instance, the number of those living under the absolute poverty line was around 10 million according to government statistics. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:2D2D:CE64:63E9:5C6A (talk) 00:47, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2023
Cyberpulps (talk) 14:51, 10 March 2023 (UTC) Iran's GDP is completely wrong, their gdp(nominal) is 359 billion $
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: using the IMF's estimate doesn't make it wrong. M.Bitton (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * If I went to McDonald's and got a burger meal it would cost me under $10. If I went to a low end restaurant and ordered the same it would cost me under $20. If I went to a high end one it could cost me twice that. A super high end one would sell me that meal for over $100.
 * Under PPP methodology the McDonald's meal needs to be repriced to one of the restaurant prices. Would the price be adjusted to the low end restaurant, the high end restaurant or a posh super high end one? Who decides?
 * When looking at an economy it is best to use the actual transaction price and not a transaction price adjusted by some factor pulled out of someone's ass. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:2D2D:CE64:63E9:5C6A (talk) 00:27, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

IRAN exchange rate
In the case of Iran, which exchange rate was considered? The fake 28,500 toman exchange rate announced by the government or the 50,000 toman exchange rate that exists in the market? 5.121.127.53 (talk) 07:59, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * As of this posting the free market exchange rate is 550,000 rials to the dollar or 55,000 toman. The value has been cut in half over the past 13-14 months. The inflation rate is reported to be over 50% which means, all else being equal, it will be cut in half yet again in the next 1-2 years.
 * An inflation rate of that magnitude indicates either a deeply dis-functional economy, a deeply corrupt government, or both. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:1D77:3250:60BB:CE48 (talk) 23:30, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

PPP GDP numbers are garbage
If Iran has the PPP numbers shown in the article it would be reflected in their military. Per the article the PPP GDP is close to 10% of that of the US and since Iran spends a higher percent of its GDP on its armed forces it should have around 10% of the equipment that the US military has. That mean around 1,000 airplanes and a similar number of helicopters. It means their navy should have around 25-30 ships with an average tonnage in the 5-10,000 range and at least 1 aircraft carrier. It means it should have 5 or more subs displacing 10,000 tons or so.

It has none of the above.

Iran has a few hundred planes in its air force, with most being aging US models dating from the 1960's and 1970's. It's navy has less than a dozen major ships (being charitable here), and all of them being under 2,000 tons with its subs charitably being described as 30 year old substandard relics from the Soviet era. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:1D77:3250:60BB:CE48 (talk) 23:15, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * This is just false. Iran does not spend a higher percentage of it's GDP than the US. Nor is anything you said remotely true. There are far more than a dozen surface vessels in the Iranian navy, including FOBs & auxiliary vessels far other 2000 tons. They also do not operate a single Soviet surface ship. This might be the worst logic I've ever seen used IdkIdc12345 (talk) 05:29, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The US has 4 times Iran's population yet has only twice as many servicemen in its armed forces. That alone should tell you that Iran is spending a larger portion of its GDP on it's military. Iran has around 600,000 in its regular armed forces and at least another 150,000 in the IRGC. Some numbers put IRGC membership closer to 250,000 members. For comparison, the US has around 1.5 million active duty personnel in its armed forces, roughly twice as many.
 * Now to actual spending numbers
 * The estimated budget of Iran's military is around $25 billion for the armed forces and another $5 billion for the IRGC bringing the total to around $30 billion. Actual GDP numbers (not PPP adjusted) show Iran with a GDP in the $300 billion range in recent years. Simple division shows that the military spending is around 10% of the national GDP. In recent years, the US has been at 3.5% of GDP for its military spending. As a percent of GDP, Iran's easily spends at least twice what the US spends and could very well be spending 3 times as much.
 * Iran's GDP varies a lot due to oil prices and the huge inflation rate, currently near 50%. In 2020 the GDP was estimated at $240 billion because of the low oil prices that year. This year it is estimated to be around $370 billion.
 * Iran is thought to have spend something like $100 billion on its nuclear program over the past 20 years, or roughly $5 billion per year. If this money was for a peaceful program then they could have built something like 10 power plants over that period. They contracted with the Russia to build 1, indicating that around 90% of that money is spend to develop nuclear weapons. So at least another $4 billion more needs to be added to the yearly military budget, bringing it to around $34 billion per year.
 * Your opinion on Iran's Navy is just that ... opinion! List me those major combat vessels in the 5-10,000 range. You can't because there are none. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:2D2D:CE64:63E9:5C6A (talk) 00:12, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * also I did not say that Iran operated Soviet era surface ships. I said it operated Soviet era subs. My impression is that all these subs are deathtraps that need a major overhaul before becoming seaworthy. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:2D2D:CE64:63E9:5C6A (talk) 00:56, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

GDP Table is garbage
In a prior post I pointed out that using PPP numbers distorts the facts by a large factor, and now while looking at the articles GDP table I find the nominal GDP numbers to be utter garbage.

As an example, for this year most estimates of Iran's GDP are around $370 billion, and yet the table shows a figure of $2,044 billion. That number is utter garbage. that is off by a factor of 6.

Considering how many such errors exist in the article I would say that the odds are excellent that someone working for Iran's propaganda arm was the main author of this page, as it is (to put it charitably) full of fiction that is favorable to Iran.

In real life Iran is one of the few countries whose government is so inept and corrupt, that it has managed to turn a middle income Second World country into a poverty stricken Third World one. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:2D2D:CE64:63E9:5C6A (talk) 03:25, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Poverty and meat consumption
Low meat consumption is something that is highly indicative of poverty. Per this source meat consumption in Iran was around 33 kilos a year as recently as 2019.

https://www.mappr.co/thematic-maps/meat-consumption-by-countries/

Per much more recent source the average Iranian now gets to eat only a few kilos of meat a year indicating a massive increase in poverty in recent years. This low level of meat consumption, similar to nations such as India, Nigeria and Ethiopia, indicates that Iran is now solidly in the Third World and is no longer a middle income Second World nation.

https://irannewsupdate.com/news/economy/the-average-income-for-iranians-has-shrunk-by-5000/

With the skyrocketing prices of rice, people are being forced to consume imported brands of lower quality. In contrast, the per capita consumption of meat for each person has dropped significantly, currently reaching four kilograms per year.

https://iranwire.com/en/economy/103598-meat-consumption-in-iran-falls-to-all-time-low/ Per capita meat consumption in Iran has fallen by 50 percent in a year to an average of just 2.9kg a year, meaning a large number of Iranians are no longer eating any meat at all, reported Masoud Rasouli, secretary of the Iran Meatpacking Companies Association.

In 2005, the annual per capita meat consumption of a whole Iranian household was 57kg. By 2019 this had fallen to less than 12kg.

The third link seems to be for red meat only and this explains why it cites numbers lower than the other 2 sources! 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:2D2D:CE64:63E9:5C6A (talk) 04:29, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit Iran's foreign debt to Nov 4, 2023 number ( see Link )
https://en.irna.ir/news/85280768/Iran-s-foreign-debt-down-at-over-5-5-bn-CBI 86.55.186.223 (talk) 19:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Article is very old. Please update it.
Article is very old. Please update it. I don't have permission to update it. 202.47.36.141 (talk) 18:57, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

place of women in the economy
should a new paragraphe by created to deal with this subject, currently only 11 percent of women are working Anticonstitutionnelist (talk) 17:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Article citing old figures. Update it.
Article citing old figures. Update it. 202.47.36.141 (talk) 22:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)