Talk:Economy of Italy/Archive 1

Needs update
This article has a lot of old material. I'm trying to put in the most important things, but can anyone with specific competence look through the article? --Orzetto 16:20, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, but I'm afraid I don't have enough expertise to do it. --A.rod, 22:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Italian Industrial Districts
The article have to be revised because nobody wrote something about the peculiar experience of the Italian Industrial Districts, they are the spine of Italian Economy and are quite different from the districts in the others great economy in the world. In Italy there are few great industrial companies but they are replaced by the districts, where lots of little and middle companies are grouped in few territoris and are specialized around a single and peculiar production (for example Vicenza is specialized around the gold industry and jewellery; Biella around the wool texile; Parma around the food industry). They are recognized by Italian Law and are 200 circa, they are very flexible and have the support of the local governements, schools and banks. You can find in the web lot of sources

The industrial triangle is an old term indicating the north-west zone of the earliest industrialization of Italy, who started around the last decades of the XIX century; Milan, Turin and Genoa were the tops of the triangle. Now industrialization is spread in the North-East and Central Italy, and there are also many sposts in the South.

Please can somebody erase the term "Sick Man of Europe"? It is evocative but also very offensive. Italy recently suffered five years of recession but now is recovering, as many parameters can prove. Every country in is history suffered a period of recession, it is usual, but it is not necessary to give them offensive terms.

It is not users' fault. The Economist gave to Italy this term in 2005. Anyway I agree with you, it is very offensive. Nowadays The Economist made a new "Sick Man of Europe", it is Portugal. The term should be erased for this too. --Moisterhp 01:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Tourism
This is only mentioned once on this page! Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 14:42, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

WHAT!!!???
This article could be far improved. I have studied Economy and my Dad is a master economist, and so many facts are wrong. First of all, Italy's GDP nominal is of 2.313 trillion, not 1.787 trillion. It's GDP per capita is of 31,300 not 30,400. Also, the article has an offensive and overly negative POV and bias. All the other economy articles in EU are focus on the positive points, whilst Italy all on the negative. Yes, Italy's been in a recession, but it has had en improving economy in the 1950s and 60s and now is Europe's 4th major economy. Italy has the world's 8th quality of life and many conglomerates (such as FIAT, Eni, Ferrari, Luxottica and UniCredit). Yet when I tried to edit the page, I was threatened of vandalism.--89.240.42.70 (talk) 12:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)a
 * Is that you Theeologiae?--93.45.107.206 (talk) 07:31, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Edits by Theologiae
Here the reasons why I think we should not retain part of the edits by Theologiae.

--93.45.107.206 (talk) 07:31, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) First, the "il sorpasso" was not that significant to require a mention in the lede, the GDP was artificially inflated for a couple of years and the massive debts accumulated in that brief period plague the Italian economy to this day. It was on the refs, yet I see no mention whatsoever of this in the article. So much for the NPOV.
 * 2) Second, as Marek and I told you countless times, Wikipedia is not a valid reference stop using it to source your articles!
 * 3) I already explained you what's wrong with the citymayors chart, so why did you add it back?
 * 4) How does listing every Italian company in existence (and providing their homepage as a "reference") improve the article?
 * 5) Why did you move the issues of the Italian economy in a separate section? It's factual, it's accurate and it's recent, all things the lead you replaced it with isn't.
 * 6) Last but not least, why did you take the section *I* added about labour, changed its meaning, and passed them as your own?

RfC: Content dispute: another opinion requested
There appears to be a content dispute on this page. Would an editor with a knowledge of the subject care to add their opinion and/or help resolve the issues? User:Marek69. 17:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I have seen your request for Third Opinion, and would like to offer my moderately-economically aware services to assist if I can. What is the nature of the dispute?Sahrin (talk) 13:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

The nature of the dispute is that user 93.45.107.206 believes that the economy of Italy article should remain as it is, yet I believe that some things need to be added. To see how my edition would be click on this link. Yet user 93.45.107.206 thinks that my info is not valid and poor. I disagree. Anyway, I just want to see your opinion--Theologiae (talk) 16:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It appears as though most of the information you want added is being added to the top section of the article. This section is typically used primarily to summarize the article and explain its significance.  The information you are proposing to add appears to be primarily detail information with an emphasis on the cultural aspects of the economy.  While I believe it does have a place in the article, most of the information is temporal (meaning it could be placed in the "History" section) and local (again, history).  Some of the writing does not meet our 'tone' standards (known the to Italians as...).  These should be rewritten to NPOV (e.g.:  "It is known locally as...").


 * To summarize: the information is useful and should be added, but not to the summary 'top' section.  I recommend you re-write the 'history' section with more subsections and details.  You appear to have a great deal of detail information about the economy - a total re-write of the 'History' section would benefit from a person with your knowldge experience and experience.  Please let me know if I can provide any further assistance. Sahrin (talk) 15:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok Sahrin. Just one thing. I will add all my info in the history section, yet the only thing I will add in the summary will be the quality of life index. Also, what I think should be done, just like in the Economy of France and Economy of Russia article is to take away the negative info and put in another section. For the summary, all I would write is:

The economy of Italy was in 2008 the seventh-largest economy in the world and the fourth-largest in Europe, according to the International Monetary Fund. Italy belongs to the Group of Eight (G8) industrialized nations; it is a member of the European Union, OECD, and the Group of Seven (G7). The country is divided into a developed industrial north dominated by large private companies and an agricultural, state-assisted south. Italy has the world's 8th highest quality of life, and is a developed country, and Italy's GDP per capita is at about the EU average. Italy is also the world's 5th highest tourist earner, and contains 7 of the world's biggest companies. According to the World Bank, Italy has high levels of freedom for investments, business and trade. Italy has the world's 6th (7th including the European Union) highest exports, that of US$ 546,900,000,000 (est.) in 2008. Italy, also, has the world's 24th highest oil exports, which was US$ 521,400 in 2004, even beating Germany and France.

Then, after the intro, I would include all the detailed info on the economy of Italy's good and bad points.

Reply

--Theologiae (talk) 18:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

All of that information is good and well written, but I would recommend putting the third and fourth sentences in the History section as well. It also isn't necessary to cite sources in text as well as in line; simply doing the inline citations is adequate. A constructive edit, all around. Sahrin (talk) 02:46, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok Sahrin. Also, one thing. Italy's GDP is of $2.313 trillion, not $1.787 trillion, its GDP per capita is of $31,300, not $30,200. Also, Italy's GDP growth is of -3.1%, not -5.0%. Even the sources its gives (CIA world factbook) say that, so it is incorrect. I'll have to correct that.

--Theologiae (talk) 09:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Anyone is NOT allowed to revert or they will be threatened of vandalism
Anyone is no longer just allowed to revert this new edit. You can improve it, yet reverting this edit is vandalism, as all sources are well given, and Sahrin from the economics board said that this is the way the article should be. So, no more excuses. Any revertion of it, saying something like 'poor refs' or 'biased point of view', will be regarded as VANDALISM.

Oh, and to anyone denying the citymayors chart, that is rubbish. All other GDP per city charts are exactly like that.

--Theologiae (talk) 14:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Industrial Triangle
Hi I am doing a High School project and I can't work out what Italy's industrial triangle is. I know it is between Milan Turin and Genoa, but I don't know what it is! Please does somebody know and could they explain it to me? Thank you

It's some of a image. There's NO physical site where youc and find it: it is simply a way of saying the most importanta industrial areas of Italy were (and still mostly are) atround the cities of Milan, Turin and Genoa and their metropolitan areas. Nowadays Genoa is quite in a crisis, though,m and Turin in modest sghape if compared with the past: Milan, indeed Lombvardy, holds quite weel, and new industrial areas made up by small family firms have sprung up in Emilia-Romagna, Veneto and Marche (the so-called Northeast).

The industrial Triangle was the bulk of italian business in late XIX and in the first piece of XX. Today the situation is changed: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.193.45.7 (talk) 09:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Abruzzo
I was reading the section on southern Italy and the GDP per capita numbers don't match up. It says the GDP per person is between 16,300 to 16,600 but if you look at Abruzzo's page, it says it's much higher than that around 17K and change. I think the range should be adjusted and Abruzzo mentioned as it seems have the best GDP per person in the south. Yeah, I'm part Abruzzese, so I'm biased, sue me. --70.54.109.88 (talk) 01:35, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Now at least it's fine
I have updated the article's data, which was all incorrect! I mean if you look at the CIA world factobook, all the info is literally totally different. Plus, since on the bottom it said all sources are from CIA world factbook, I've taken away the IMF ones.--Theologiae (talk) 16:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you are wrong relying uniquely on CIA factbook. That source ofter simplifies and approximates data. Multiple sources is the most reliable way. We already discussed it.--Desyman44 (talk) 20:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Needs to be updated, corrected or removed
This paragraph shows some problems:

Besides the style, such assertions are not properly referenced. I suggest that this paragraph be removed or re-written with proper referencing. RotterdammerG (talk) 16:32, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Regional GDP Table + "Comparable country"
Hello everyone. I suggest to remove the "comparable country" column in the table. I think it hardly makes sense to say that Ligurian economy is comparable to the French, Umbrian is comparable to the Cypriot, Tuscan to the German etc... Is the economy of Toscana more similar to the one of Western or Eastern Germany? Is the economy of Liguria more similar to the one in the Ile de France or the one of Bretagne? I have not modified it myself to respect the author's work, but I have to say it is the first time I see such a comparison and I think its significance is questionable. regards, (Nebu87 (talk) 18:56, 16 May 2010 (UTC))


 * i agree. moreover the datas are totally false! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.12.210.244 (talk)


 * Removed.--Enok (talk) 00:49, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Economy of Italy
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Economy of Italy's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "economist.com": From Economy of Pakistan:  From Italy: [http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf The Economist Intelligence Unit’s quality-of-life index], Economist, 2005 

Reference named "nationsencyclopedia.com": From Economic history of Italy: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Europe/Italy-ECONOMIC-DEVELOPMENT.html From Switzerland:  From Economy of Morocco: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Africa/Morocco-ECONOMIC-DEVELOPMENT.html 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Great work, thank you!

--Conte di Cavour (talk) 11:15, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Replace European Regional Development Fund map?
At this section there is a link to the following map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:European_union_erdf_map_de.png. However, I think it would be better to use this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:European_union_erdf_map_en.png. The latter one is in English while the current one is in German.

They seem to be identical but I'm not sure. Can someone confirm? --IRISZOOM (talk) 04:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Discrimination against Southern Italy
The article follows the common discrimination against southern Italy we had during the last 150 years, after the conquered of the whole peninsula by the House of Savoy. You should not write this kind of discrimination in 2013. I will add information with scholars' books references when I will have time to do that.--AlexanderFreud (talk) 16:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

1990s lira collapse and levy
In reporting of the 2012–2013 Cypriot financial crisis, Foxnews says ".. in the 1990s, Italy levied a tax on every bank account to stave off the collapse of its lire currency. The rate, however, was minuscule — 0.06 percent ..". Does anyone know when this happened? See also Talk:Bank deposit levy. -- John Vandenberg (chat) 21:43, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Missing section
Tourism is one of the main economic sectors of Italy but it is not mentioned in the article.-- Itemirus (talk)  08:15, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

DATED CITATIONS ABOUT GDP
In 2014 Italy has the 8th nominal gdp in the world and the 11th gdp PPP in the world.The citations added for gdp are old and to be cancelled.In 2014 Italy has a nominal gdp as reported by IMF of 2,171,482 billions $ List of countries by past and future GDP (nominal)  .79.23.194.102 (talk) 20:48, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Italy is ranked 8th in the world in 2014 as nominal GDP
Italy according to IMF is ranked 8th in the world in 2014.79.18.184.167 (talk) 08:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

External link
Hello everyone, I am working for the International Trade Centre (ITC), a UN/WTO agency that aims to promote sustainable economic development through trade promotion. I would like to propose the addition of an external link (http://www.macmap.org/QuickSearch/FindTariff/FindTariff.aspx?subsite=open_access&country=SCC381|Italy&source=1|ITC) that leads directly to our online database of customs tariffs applied by Italy. Visitors can easily look up market access information for Italy by selecting the product and partner of their interest. I would like you to consider this link under the WP:ELYES #3 prescriptions. Moreover, the reliability and the pertinence of this link can be supported by the following facts 1) ITC is part of the United Nations, and aims to share trade and market access data on by country and product as a global public good 2) No registration is required to access this information 3) Market access data (Tariffs and non-tariff measures) are regularly updated

Thank you, Divoc (talk) 14:57, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Dr. Di Dio's comment on this article
Dr. Di Dio has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

"From my perspective, the article missed to briefly mention Italy's Ancient Monuments and Cultural Heritage. This is a major sector its economy relies on for the economic repercussions from turism. Perhaps, a paragraph (or a reference) on this point may greatly enrich the outlook of Italy and give the reader a complete picture of it."

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Di Dio has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:


 * Reference : Barbara Annicchiarico & Fabio Di Dio & Francesco Felici, 2014. "Fiscal Devaluation Scenarios: A Quantitative Assessment for the Italian Economy," CEIS Research Paper 311, Tor Vergata University, CEIS, revised 24 Sep 2014.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Dr. Checchi's comment on this article
Dr. Checchi has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

"more than "stron labor law" I would replace "stron labour movements". Italy rank high in corruption country ranking. "mixed entities" mentioned in the historical sections were called Fasci and they were corporatist entities, organizing employers and employees in the same organisation. Among the economic resources tourism is fully neglected. Food and wine quality are potential sources for relaunching of the agro-business. The third Italian bank (Monte dei Paschi) is close to bankruptcy. I do not like to read names of who are the richest Italian, I find more interesting to know the composition of wealth ownership, which is mostly given by buildings."

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Checchi has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:


 * Reference : Bratti, Massimiliano & Checchi, Daniele, 2013. "Re-testing PISA Students One Year Later: On School Value Added Estimation Using OECD-PISA," IZA Discussion Papers 7722, Institute for the Study of Labor (IZA).

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 17:13, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2016
The average net wage according to EUROSTAT  in 2015 (see  100% net wage in reference Eurostat )in Italy is 1725€/month and 20702€/ year.The data derives from a dated reference of 2014 and above all not calculated by an official statistic agency but by a job private company named JP.That reference must be deleted and must be added the newest and official one of EUROSTAT.Thanks. 151.40.1.132 (talk) 06:42, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Understood is the need to update these figures; however, there are some issues that make this edit request a bit confusing...
 * On the list page you reference, the Eurostat figures used for Italy are actually the 2015 figures that have been added to the 2014 table.
 * On this "Economy of Italy" page, you want the 2015 Eurostat figures for a "single person with no children at 100% of AW" used for the update, but why not use the same figures that are used in the table in the list article, which are the 2015 Eurostat figures for a "one earner married couple at 100% of AW with two children"? (€24,391 annually)
 * You appear to be correct about JP – I couldn't find a single 2014 category on Eurostat's website that was anywhere close to the figure on JP's website. Temporal Sunshine  Paine   05:59, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

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Poverty
Could you please look into the used source again- and possibly correct the entry? The source was publish in 2015, however it refers to 2014. Also the numbers seem to be different. It says the threshold is at "1,041.91" in 2014, however here it was written it would be at "1050,95€/month" in 2015. Thank you.--Joobo (talk) 14:48, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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about the "The advanced country's private wealth is one of the largest in the world." line
The line in the title, present right at the introduction, has two references attached to it that both relate to the previous statement about luxury goods. I'm not comfortable enough to make any edits, but this should be looked into! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.246.197.183 (talk) 07:28, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Tourism
How is it that in an article about the Economy of Italy, there is literally not one mention of tourism? It comprises 13% of GDP. It's a major industry. Ordinary Person (talk) 05:52, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

A spin-off article about the North-South divide?
The North-South divide is a large topic that I think is deserving of its own article. There is a lot of literature on the topic (I have found plenty of papers, books, and articles), which would be sufficient for a lengthy article. What does everyone think?

--HelpHelper (talk) 02:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I support the idea. The so-called questione meridionale is a process which has been studied by historians and I think an article focused on it would meet the encyclopedicity requirements. Have a look at the Italian counterpart it:Questione meridionale (which is largely based on Italian sources, but I think that also non-Italian historians and economists have treated the subject). About the title I would think of something more understandable than "Southern issue" (transl. of questione meridionale), like "North-South divide in Italy" or something similar, and probably include also the modern economy and politics in the text (which is missing in the Italian wiki article). --Ritchie92 (talk) 07:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

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