Talk:Economy of Scotland in the Middle Ages/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: LT910001 (talk · contribs) 11:32, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

If there are no objections, I'll take this review. I'll note at the start I haven't had any role in creating or editing this article. I welcome the input of any other editors during this review.LT910001 (talk) 11:40, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * At first blush this article appears well-written, sourced, neutral and broad. I will provide a more full review with an assessment tomorrow. LT910001 (talk) 11:40, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Specific commentary
This article is very interesting and packed full of content. However there are some outstanding issues that should be addressed before GA promotion. These pertain to an image and some concerns regarding readability.

Some issues that are preventing nomination:
 * The image "A silver penny of David I, the first silver coinage to bear a Scottish king's head." has a possible copyright flag on it. Suggest remove or replace
 * It just needed the PD tag updating, which is now done.--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I note this because of the WP:GARC only, and have changed the above assessment. LT910001 (talk) 08:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Some comments regarding readability include:
 * It would be helpful if the 'background' section made a short reference as to the population, culture/religion, governance and organisation of Scotland at the time.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, much better. LT910001 (talk) 08:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I feel it is confusing to have 'Agriculture' organised before 'Burghs', as knowing about the structure of the society before their agricultural practices helps me orientate myself when reading the article.
 * Yes but burghs were not around until half way through the period, so this makes more chronological sense. I think it will be more confusing to talk about something later invented and then go back. Also agriculture is far more significant in the economy than anything the medieval burghs did, so it seems logical to deal with it first.--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I am not familiar with this topic area or Medieval English, so a table of terms in the Agriculture section would be much appreciated. I feel this would be the same for other readers and could be amelioerated by having a table, such as "Medieval English terms used to describe agriculture", included. Some words I had trouble following were: burgh, grange, charter, burgess, mercat cross, vat, ploughgate, rath, baile, run rig, fermtoun, coulter.
 * I would rather not break the article up in that way. The terms are linked and most of them are explained immediately in the text. I have run through and made sure the explanations are as clear as possible.--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * This article would certainly benefit from an noting major imports and exports, import and export partners, and major industries.
 * Well if you insist I will put it in, but I am not sure it is really appropriate. I am not sure we can call our one reference to ships from Italy, which we assume were bringing wine, a major trading partner. There would probably be about five sets of good and three trading partners. There couldn't be any of the statistics this table is designed to take.--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * In theory this would be a good idea, as it would provide a nice introduction to the article. Having investigated this further I must say I agree with you that it would not be suitable. LT910001 (talk) 08:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Many paragraphs would benefit from topic sentences, that is, short sentences that offer a short precis of what the paragraph will be about. Some examples these paragraphs are "There are not the detailed custom accounts ... for Scotland dating to the 1320s", "In the period c. 1150 to 1300, warm dry summers ... at much greater heights above sea level and made land more productive." This helps fixate the reader about what each paragraph is about and how it fits into the whole article, and future editors about where to add new content.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this article is much easier to read. LT910001 (talk) 08:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Some long paragraphs, particularly the first two in agriculture and the middle two in 'manufacturing', could be split to enhance readability and clarity of text, as well as allow a greater focus for each paragraph.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 09:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

This is not meant to be a prescriptive, but some suggestions on how to improve the readability of the article, and I welcome your feedback. Cheers, LT910001 (talk) 11:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The information regarding wool and hides could be presented as a table to demonstrate the growth in trade.

Read-through
My specific concerns have been addressed, however I would still like to improve overall readability before this article goes to GA. I will now do a close read-through of the entire article. This relates to the first criteria (readability, spelling & grammar) of the GARC. The list below is not prescriptive, but in aggregate may impact on the readability of the article overall. LT910001 (talk) 08:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Agriculture

 * "In the early Middle Ages (comma)"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "period of climate deterioration" climate -> climatic
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * “Northern Britain (comma) farming ”
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Suggest move this sentence: "Limited archaeological evidence... single homestead to sentence #2, as this flows from sentence #1.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Move this sentence: "The early Middle ages were a period..." to the beginning of the third paragraph ("Climate change had a major impact on agriculture ", as this is a good topic sentence.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Suggest reword "The main unit of land measurement in Scotland was the davoch (i.e. "vat"), called the arachor in Lennox. This unit is also known as the "Scottish ploughgate." In English-speaking Lothian, it was simply ploughgate.[21] It may have measured about 104 acres (0.42 km2),[22] divided into 4 raths" for clarity to ""The main unit of land measurement in Scotland was the davoch ("vat"), equivalent to about 104 acres (0.42km2) and divided into 4 raths.[cits] This “Scottish ploughgate" was also known in the English-speaking Lothian as "ploughgate", or arachor (italics) in Lothlian. [cit]."
 * I paired down this bit of inherited text. To be honest it confused me.✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * New paragraph here "In the late Middle Ages” so that there is some symmetry with the early Middle Ages climate change para.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "By the late Middle Ages (comma)"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Flip: "approximately 15,000 sheep, making them among the largest sheep farmers in Europe" -> "were amongst the largest sheep farmers in Europe, having about 15,000 sheep apiece."
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * move to the paragraph above, after "wool for the markets in Flanders", as this is a logical consequence: "Monastic agriculture was organised in granges, farms run by lay brothers of the order.[28] Granges were theoretically within 30 miles of the mother monastery, so that those working there could return for services on Sundays and feast days. They were used for variety of purposes, including pastoral, arable and industrial production. However, to manage more distant assets in Ayrshire, Melrose Abbey used Mauchline as a "super grange", to oversee lesser granges.[26]"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Burghs

 * A very interesting section!


 * Suggest first sentence reword for clarity to: "Records of burghs, small towns granted legal priveleges from the English crown, can be found from the 11th century. Burghs, (derived from the Germanic word for (italicised) fortress), developed rapidly during the of David I (1124-53). Up until this point in the High Middle Ages (wikilink), there were no identifiable towns in Scotland." I feel this helps establish what burghs are, why they emerged, and why they are important, in that order.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "and early burgesses that were usually English or Flemish" -> "and early citizens, called burgesses, that were usually English or Flemish"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "trade with the continent" -> "trade with Europe" (or "European continent")
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "less profitable " -> hyphenate
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "with Ireland (comma)"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "surrounded by a palisade or possessing a castle (comma) and usually had a marketplace, with a widened high street or junction, often marked by a mercat cross (market cross), beside houses for the burgesses and other inhabitants."
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Due to time constraints I will continue tomorrow. LT910001 (talk) 08:30, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Manufacture and trade

 * “By the later fifteenth century(comma)”; later->late
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "iron casting" -> "iron-casting" and wikilink.
 * "There are not the detailed custom accounts for most of the period that exist for England, that can provide an understanding of foreign trade, with the first records for Scotland dating to the 1320s.[33]" this sentence is a little confusing, perhaps you could reorder the clauses to enhance clarity.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "In the early Middle Ages (comma)"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "for use in religious rites (comma)"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "St Columba " (wikilink)
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "Coins were replacing barter goods, with Scottish coins being struck from the reign of David I (new sentence) mints were established at Berwick, Roxburgh, Edinburgh and Perth"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "without the use of metal currency (comma)"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "They may have led to an increase in continental trade and isolated references indicate that Scottish ships were active in Norway and Danzig and the earliest records from the 1330s indicate that five-sixths of this trade was in the hands of Scottish merchants"
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "continental trade (comma), with isolated references indicating..."
 * "Norway and Danzig (wikilink) (comma), with the earliest records from the 1330s inddicating"
 * "What does 'five-sixths of this trade was in the hands of the Scottish merchants mean'? (From my understanding, trade implies a reciprocal arrangement, so this value should be 100%).
 * It is about who carried the trade rather than where the trade came from.--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "Despite a levelling off, there was another drop in exports as the markets collapsed in the early-sixteenth century Low Countries" -> "Despite a levelling-off, in the Low Countries there was another drop..."
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * "large(hyphen)scale cloth production and only poor(hyphen)quality "
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Short note: I feel it would enhance this article a lot if the first mention of 'High Middle Ages' and 'Late Middle Ages' were wikilinked.
 * ✅--  SabreBD  (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I have completed a thorough read-through and will await your input. Cheers, LT910001 (talk) 12:41, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion
I find this article to match the GARC in being well-written and broad, neutral and well-sourced, and without any outstanding issues. I have updated the table above and will make the required changes to promote to GA status shortly. I have made one or two what I hope are non-controversial edits. Well done and I wish you well on your wiki-travels. LT910001 (talk) 22:44, 24 October 2013 (UTC)