Talk:Ed Koch/Archive 1

Statements Regarding Anti-Catholicism
A couple things about the addition I made regarding Koch's defence of the Catholic Church. First, try as I might, I was unable to find, on the JPost website itself, a copy of the original article, perhaps someone else may have better luck. I do have the text of the article in its entirety, and have posted it, for citation purposes, to my personal webspace. If this inappropriate I do apologise, but for the time being, at least, I felt it the only option. There are numerous other articles, readily available on the internet, which will attest to Koch having written the article and to him having expressed the sentiments I have written about in the addition, so I'm confident the article's veracity is not in question

Secondly, I think this is a very important article to make mention of, as Ed Koch is a well known figure, and a well known left-wing, liberal Democrat, yet has penned an article in defence of an institution which holds to a much more conservative viewpoint. A viewpoint, he freely admits, is, in many ways, opposed to his. This is important for a couple reason. Firstly, the issue of the the Roman Catholic Church in the media, particularly the priest sex abuse scandals, is a prominent one, and I believe it is reasonable, indeed wise, to make mention of Mr. Koch's feelings and beliefs on these matters.

Secondly, I believe it serves to paint a more full picture of Ed Koch, demonstrating him as a man willing to come to the defence of an institution which, in many ways, stands opposed to his beliefs. This, I believe, paints a more full, human picture of the man and his guiding principles and character. (Do not misinterpret that last sentence as an attempt at hagiography)

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment Drive

This article is only narrowly B-class as it lacks citations and references.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 23:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Nureinefrage (talk) 03:13, 10 November 2012 (UTC)Mayor Koch is unquestionably a talented, even brilliant, mensch. However, even he can not be "in two places at once." To wit: the Early Life section asserts that Sgt. Ed Koch served in the US Army in Europe as of 1941 and he was discharged from the Army in 1946. But Early Life also posits that Mr. Koch graduated from CCNY in 1945. So, which is it? As noted, he could not have been in "two places at once," could he?Nureinefrage (talk) 03:13, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Needs criticism
There should be a section on criticisms of Koch's mayoralty. To me, far from being a "liberal," Koch was a conservative democrat, who managed his victories by finding isolated spokespersons among communities that weren't part of his base.

Photo
Any chance we could replace Koch's photo with a smaller one? Surely such a large, hi-res picture as is currently posted does not fall into the 'fair use' category! Grammaticus Repairo 06:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Koch a Democrat?!
This is more about the Bloomberg Article than anything else, but can anyone name a Democart(other than himself) who he has supported or by default, can anyone name a Democart that he has not slammed on behalf of the GOP?--NY101 16:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I would agree that Bloomberg is more of a Democrat than this guy. 64.147.190.218 08:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

He supported Hillary Clinton in 2000 and still does. He has said that he plans to support her for President in 2008.

Koch was/is certainly conservative on many, though certainly not all, issues, but as far as party affiliation, has most often supported the party (if sometimes critically); nonetheless he has an independent mind, and calls it as he sees it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.236.139 (talk) 15:51, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Koch: a Francophobe
In 2002, Kock used to punctuate the end of his radio shows in these terms: «Omni Gaula delenda est», which give us in english: «All the Gaul must be destroyed». (Gaul is the territory of modern-day France, cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul)

Well known corruption?
Odd no mention about any of the scandals during his tenure as mayor, an article about Ed Koch without a section on corruption, is like an article about Boss Tweed without a political cartoon of Tweed being both fat and corrupt--205.188.117.71 02:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Connection with Operation Condor?
Mr Koch's connection with Operation Condor (in the section Congress) is confusing and presented without explanation. What was Mr Koch's connection to Latin American affairs? --Philopedia 09:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Opposing Giuliani
His opposing Giuliani began in January, 1996, as is indicated in the May 13, 2007 New York Post story. The major tipping point was Giuliani's changing the system of selecting judges. Dogru144 02:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yet somehow Koch supported and continues to support George W. Bush, despite nearly every criticism he's levelled at Giuliani being equally applicable to Bush. 76.123.216.96 (talk) 03:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Article reorganized
This article's organization had become a mess, with the chronological fractured in several places and information about his mayoralty spread throughout. I've reassembled it to correct these faults and flow better. Wasted Time R 14:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Great; the article looks much better now. Korny O&#39;Near 13:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Source to check out: Giuliani biography
In a July 18, 2000 Village Voice article there is an article subtitled "63 hot newsbreaks in the new Giuliani biography." The article is referring "Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudy Giuliani" by Wayne Barrett and Adam Fifield.

Here are the Koch related items: CHAPTER 9:

24. Ed Koch's 1987 stroke came in the midst of mounting pressures over a combined press/U.S. attorney probe of a city contract awarded to Richard Nathan, a purported lover of his. (175-1811 Jack McAvoy, a Washington attorney, verifies that Nathan was summoned from California by close Giuliani aides and questioned about Koch's sex life. (178-180)

25. Koch aide Herb Rickman, a witness in the Bess Myerson trial, says that Giuliani's office repeatedly asked him about Koch's sex life. (183-t84i

26. Koch aide Larry Kieves says he was brought in a potential Myerson witness and also questioned about the mayor's sex life. (184) These three new sources confirm Nathan's comments to the Voice in 1993, and are backed up by diary entries in a federal agent's logs and interviews with the agent, another investigator, and several other individuals.

--Larrybob 19:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the Koch article already quotes the appropriate reply to all this: Fuck off. Wasted Time R 19:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

U-u-uhh
When speaking, Koch repeatedly interjects the sound "u-u-uhh." This occurs so often that it is difficult for a listener to follow his thought. To correct this problem, radio sound editors record his speech, delete the interjections, and play his edited speech. When criticized for this defect, Koch replied that he is too old to change his speech habits.Lestrade 15:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

Jewish
I noticed whilst viewing the Ilse Koch articles, it states that Ed Koch is her son,then links to his page. Is this information sourced? How could a infamous female Concentration Camp Guard who supposedly made lamp shades from skin be jewish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.203.53.99 (talk) 10:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What you were looking at was just vandalism from earlier in the day. Korny O&#39;Near 12:59, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

ahhhh. ok. cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.198.66.98 (talk) 16:25, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

EIK
I heard that the term EIK was used in lieu of eat-in-kitchen as subliminal advertising for Koch. Is that true? CoolGuy 22:23, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Absolutely, it was a decision made at an Illuminati meeting in the early 80's. Just don't tell anyone. Korny O&#39;Near 00:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Jewish religion
The infobox says "Religion - Jewish", but do we have a reliable source that says Ed Koch is a practicing religious Jew? Being of Jewish background doesn't necesarily make so. /Slarre (talk) 18:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is religious Jewishness and there is genetic Jewishness. He is a genetic Jew.Lestrade (talk) 20:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)Lestrade

'Cultural references' are not trivia
The cultural references section should not be tagged as trivia. It's not a miscellaneous collection of facts, it's an ordered list of facts that shed light on how Koch has been viewed by the society at large. Korny O&#39;Near (talk) 20:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Accepted, but some of the references need episode-citiations, and I question the encyclopedic value of (for example) Will & Grace's "Karen" showing Ed Koch her boobs. HalJor (talk) 22:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So you should take out what you think doesn't belong, and add "cite" tags. Korny O&#39;Near (talk) 22:09, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've already added "episode" tags, but I'll have to give some thought to what's valuable. You have made the valid point that "cultural references" are not inherently "trivia" and I'd rather avoid sparking an edit war over such subjective material. HalJor (talk) 22:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The formewr Mayor briefly had one of the highest rated radio programs on New York City's 770WABC during the mid '90's. I don't have the details to include this, but if an informed radio/ABC afficianado has the sources, this should certainly be included in the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.236.139 (talk) 15:45, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

odd, no mention at all of crime
Crime is all over the David Dinkins article.

Yet not a mention of crime in this article about Koch, even though it was during his long tenure (1977 - 1989) that violent crime exploded to record levels, and it was during Dinkins's short tenure that the big dropoff began. 69.121.6.97 (talk) 14:22, 31 July 2009 (UTC)captcrisis

Mayor's Private Sector Survey 1989
Suggested addition:

NYC ED KOCH MAYOR'S PRIVATE SECTOR SURVEY

In 1988, Mayor Koch asked Frank T. Cary [1920-2006], then the retired CEO of IBM Corporation, to chair a group of executives, managers and professionals from banking, finance and industry to study the operations of city agencies and make recommendations. The team of over 100 people from major companies began in early 1989, working with the consulting firm, Price Waterhouse. The executive director was Paul J. Kofmehl [1929-2007], a retired IBM vice-president.

When Ed Koch lost the primary in 1989, the task force recommendations were passed on the the next mayor, David Dinkins, who faced a deteriorating city, with many demoralized workers. With the election of Rudy Giuliani as mayor in 1993, one of the first action items was the installation of new computerized reporting systems (crime reporting, precinct accountability, etc.)in the Police Department, which had been part of the Private Sector recommendations. That system has been cited as a major reason for the turnaround in the quality-of-life issues and the reduction in crime rates.

REFERENCES:

Cary, Frank T., THE N.Y.C. SERVICE CRISIS: A MANAGEMENT RESPONSE, Mayor's Private Sector Survey, NY, 1989.

Dinkins, David N., NEW YORK CITY'S RESPONSE TO THE MAYOR'S PRIVATE SECTOR SURVEY, The Survey, 1990.

Kofmehl, Paul J. and Edward Sermier, "New York City Private Sector Survey," PUBLIC PRODUCTIVITY AND MANAGEMENT REVIEW, Vol XV, No. 2, Winter 1991, p. 179. GeneBi (talk) 19:01, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

No,DON'T put it in. This reinforces the mythology that only Dinkins was responsible for the big crime problem, and only Giuliani fixed it. Your references cannot possibly support this addition because they are dated 1989 and 1991 (the 2nd year of the Dinkins administration, predating Giuliani by 3 years). Also, CompStat was at most a minor factor in the reduction in crime. (See the Wikipedia article on CompStat.)69.119.169.59 (talk) 13:15, 25 December 2012 (UTC)captcrisis

Assessment comment
Substituted at 20:26, 3 May 2016 (UTC)