Talk:Edinburgh Academy

Motto
I came to this article from the article on Brighton College, where it is said that Edinburgh Academy is the only other school with a Greek motto.... no mention of the motto here tho??? lmno 10:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The schools moto is "Always excel" - I'll take a photo of it on the main building when I'm next up there [I'm an Academical]. Probably some time in Ocotober. In the Greek it is: AIEN ARISTEUEIN


 * The motto ΑΙΕΝ ΑΡΙΣΤΕΥΕΙΝ, "Ever to Excel" appears above the organ in the main hall. This is taken from Homer's Iliad and is the motto of many other educational institutions, including the University of St Andrews. There is also a Greek inscription on the capital of the main building, Η ΠΑΙΔΕΙΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΣ ΣΟΦΙΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΣ ΑΡΕΤΗΣ ΜΗΤΗΡ, which means "Education is the mother of learning and virtue". --Webskate101 06:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Opening comment
I am intending to make some radical changes to this article. It needs just a little more history and a bit less entertainment value — this is an encyclopaedia, after all. I have started by removing the link between the Gaelic word clachan and the Lowland Scots word clacken (or clackan). There is absolutely no etymological relationship between the two words. Hopefully that change will have notified anyone who is 'watching' this article — I encourage you to contribute to this discussion. (Tithon 21:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC))


 * I agree 110%. This article was a [lot worse] before (obviously written by someone at the school), I toned it down considerably, and fully agree more could/should be done.  Gsd2000 23:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Major revision
I have now carried out the 'radical changes' referred to above. I have left in the references to hand-cricket but tried to make it more general. An article by me on Hailes and the Clacken is in preparation and will follow!

Please contribute to this discussion if you make any other major changes.(Tithon 16:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC))


 * Nice work. Gsd2000 17:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Removing reference to 'hand cricket'. 'Fives' has been played at the school for decades, 'hand cricket' was invented only two years ago and played by a very small number of people. It doesn't belong in a 'traditions' section. Anonymouspirate 13:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Removing reference to 'alcove'. for same reason.Anonymouspirate 13:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Merchiston
It might be worth mentioning the rivalry with Merchiston but I'm not sure where this would go and how relevant it is. Hijanti 17:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite how relevant it is in an encyclopaedia. Nevertheless, Edinburgh does have a unique private school tradition, which naturally leads to friendly rivalries. It might be worthwhile having an article on this as an entry in itself - Edinburgh's Private Schools or something - but it would need to contain valid encyclopaedic information and not be merely an expression of the rivalry itself. (Tithon 23:38, 20 March 2006 (UTC))

It is relevant as it is the oldest rugby union fixture in the world. It was first played at the Academical grounds on Raeburn Place in Edinburgh in 18xx something - need to check - but is still viciously fought to the day!


 * I agree. It is indeed the oldest fixture in the world, and should be documented as such. Anybody got a good reference for it? Rlfb 11:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Is the Scotsman a sufficient source? Alan Massie's article, para 2: http://sport.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=736&id=90962003 .  On the other hand, a pdf on the SRU site says "The first-ever inter-school match recorded in Scotland was The High School versus Merchiston, played on 13 February 1858." ( http://www.scottishrugby.org/shadomx/apps/fms/fmsdownload.cfm?file_uuid=A25BB25D-E612-A4BD-CA0C-E106CB0ED01F&siteName=sru at the foot of page 1)  So it would be necessary to stress the continuing nature of the fixture, if I understand the claim correctly? Endie 14:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Notable Academicals
The number of Notable Academicals seems to be growing like Topsy! It is my suggestion that names are only included when they are already to be found in the articles within Wikipedia. Then, of course, a link can be included. It would be worth at this stage editing the article on the Academical concerned, adding the school (with link) to the text and including Edinburgh Academical in the category sections. (Tithon 10:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC))

Dundas/Houses
I note a number of reversions have been made regarding the naming of the division Houses, it having been changed to Dundas. Does anyone know the history behind why the division has sometimes been called Dundas? We certainly did refer to it as "Dundas" sometimes when I was a pupil (1994-2000), though it is generally called "Houses". I'm guessing there is some historical reason for it. Rather than these ongoing revert wars, couldn't we cover both bases to satisfy everyone, if indeed there is a historical reason for it? Rlfb 15:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In my experience (as a pupil from 96-09), it's called Dundas in the Junior School and Houses in the Senior School. Quite why this is, I'm not sure. 92.8.243.198 (talk) 14:25, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Controversy
I don't think this is a particularly relevant section. Every institution has its controversies, and EA is no exception. This particular one is not one I've heard before, but there are several other lewd stories that have been in the press over the past few years of similar goings-on. I don't think any one is particularly important over any other, and nor do I think any one (especially one as speculative as this) deserves mention on the school's wikipedia entry. Rlfb 16:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, of course it isn't speculative as such: the rector went on the record and acknowledged that it occurred, that the culprit was a pupil, that the pictures were posted in a common room and so on, but also said that he felt unable to act for various reasons (as covered in the addition). Given that it was a major story at the time, that it does continue to shape attitudes in the city towards the institution, and that the revision intentionally excludes hearsay, it seems relevant. But then I would say that, since I added it! I can see that, in a number of years, it may be less important and might lose relevance (which is a shame for the lassie involved, but wikipedia probably needs grim realism...) Endie 08:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, ok, you've partially convinced me, but I agree that over time this will become much less relevant. I recall several newspaper stories involving the EA in the past few years -- I'll mention no details here, but I can count at least 3 other stories that have hit the headlines since 2000, and wonder why this one is particularly pertinent.  The "speculation" I mentioned refers to whether the posting of the image was actually connected to the girl's death -- as far as I can see, no evidence has ever been produced to prove this, and rather it has been made purely by unverifiable allegation. Rlfb 09:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I wholeheartedly agree that other matters about a school, with sources available (in the cases you mention, newspapers), are potential candidates: I just don't happen to know any (apart from living nearby, I have no links, and certainly no issues, with EA itself, and in fact have certain reasons to be rather fond of it). Fair point about the speculation: that said, I think the causal link is about on the "cigarettes and cancer" level of a couple of decades ago, in that it's pretty clear, but impossible to ask the poor girl.  I certainly don't think that the role of wikipedia is to make legal allegations, or even to memorialise, but merely to comment on and document fairly a pertinent (for now) incident.  To be honest, I thought I'd erred fairly heavily on the side of carefulness when it came to stressing the alleged nature of the coverage.


 * What I had in mind in adding the story was that someone trying to source their own research in the field of, for instance, harrasment and students or depression amongst teenagers would be able to use something like this.Endie 23:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

For some reason EightySix86 decided simply to delete this section. I've reverted for now, although I'm again happy to be persuaded if they can provide reasons: we've already had quite a discussion, after all.Endie 11:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Assess
A good well presented start article. Some interesting alumni. With a little more content and lots of references incorporated into the text this could be a B. The school possibly merits a higher importance rating but it is difficult to judge based on the content of the existing article. Dahliarose 09:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Sources/References
Currently there is both a "references" and a "sources" section, which seems a little silly. The easy way to fix it would be just to delete one of the two titles, but then perhaps it would be a good idea to turn the books currently in "sources" into in-line citations. Has anyone got copies of the 3 books mentioned to reference particular sections? Rlfb 09:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

A level results
We commonly include material such as this, so I've raised the issue at WP:NPOVN. Dougweller (talk) 18:28, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

"History of allegations"
I have no personal knowledge of this school, but I think that the reference to "a history of allegations made against it of bullying and abuse" in the lede is both damaging and insufficiently evidenced. The references cited appear to amount to (i) an undated Daily Mail article referring to a tragic event when a pupil of another school took her life, possibly as a result of bullying by Edinbugh Academy pupils; (ii) a Scotsman article from 2014, suggesting that there may have been bullying on a CCF expedition; (iii) a Scotsman article from 2015 referring to allegations of sexual abuse in the 1960s and 1970s. So far as the alleged incidents go, there is a huge gap in time between the 1960s/1970s allegations and the later allegations. And the later allegations appear to relate to two isolated events. Pending further discussion, I intend to delete the reference to a "history of allegations".45ossington (talk) 09:01, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Herbert Mills
The link, under 'Rectors', to Herbert Mills points to a Herbert Vincent Mills, born 1856. This CANNOT be the Herbert Mills, Rector 1962-77. In his previous post at Sedbergh School he was always known as H. H. Mills.

He is worth an article of his own, if there is any truth in what was said about him at Sedbergh (by the boys). He wore light blue rugby socks, and was said to be a Cambridge Blue. He was also said to have an Military Cross from Arnhem. He had a doctorate from the Sorbonne - it was said that while awaiting appointment to the Edinburgh Academy, he was offered a chair at the Sorbonne, in medieval French.

I haven't the time or resource to check these stories nor, therefore, to write the article. Good luck to anyone who does!


 * P.S. At Sedbergh, he was known to boys as 'Bertie', presumably from Bertram Mills's circus. My friend at EA knew him (not to his face) as 'Dark satanic', from Blake's Jerusalem.


 * I now (4/1/20) find an article on 'Cloudpedia' ([] on Herbert Horatio Mills) that says he had a double first from Cambridge in Modern and Medieval Languages; a PhD at Cambridge (St Catherines) - the Sorbonne is not mentioned; two rugby blues at Cambridge - he later played for Gloucestershire, at wing forward; service in the Parachute Regiment at Pegasus Bridge and at the crossing of the Rhine - Arnhem is not mentioned; the MC was awarded for service in Normandy, and action in the advance on Putot-en-Auge, on the 19th August (1944) ([]).

MacAuslan (talk) 14:57, 3 January 2020 (UTC)