Talk:Edna St. Vincent Millay

Her death
So which is it: heart attack or drunken fall down the stairs? The article says both --Jolomo 17:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I edited this to match Epstein's biography, which cites a fall. I also took out the reference to a poem clutched in her hand for now, since it is not in Epstein -- can anyone substantiate that? --Celithemis 01:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I see this has been edited again. I checked both the recent biographies of Millay, by Daniel Mark Epstein and Nancy Milford, and they both agree that she was found at the bottom of the stairs with a broken neck.  They're very specific about it -- Milford quotes the person who found her and the doctor who pronounced her dead.  I don't know where the heart failure theory comes from; maybe it was someone's theory about why she fell, but neither of them support that.  Seems a fall is the current consensus.  &mdash;Cel  ithemis  02:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Norma used to tell people she died of a heart attack, because she was very protective of her sister's reputation and feared the fall would be attributed to liquor (or drugs) and be a more tawdry less becoming ending to the epic Millay story. Norma was definitely the source of the heart attack myth. The truth is that Vincent fell down the stairs at Steepletop in the middle of the night and broke her neck, where John Pinnie found her on the lower landing the next day, and Norma covered up the true details for years and years. In an earlier biography there is even a bit about her wine glass being found on the step, unspilled, as if she had sat down on the stairs and put the glass down gently before keeling over gracefully in a heart attack. It wasn't graceful, however, it was a brutal fall from the top. Though it certainly wasn't a suicide either, it was an accident. Nancy Milford's account of Millay is authoritative because she alone got access to all the papers and letters Norma guarded, as well as most of Norma's secrets since she had Norma's trust and could read between the lines of Norma's tales. She didn't publish in Norma's lifetime because Norma never wanted most of those secrets revealed. --User:Dc.samizdat — Preceding undated comment added 18:14, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Personal Life
I made some major changes to the Personal Life section after looking for and failing to find support for much of it, particularly the paragraph about a love triangle between Millay, Djuna Barnes, and Thelma Wood. I also could not verify the claimed relationships with Natalie Clifford Barney and Berenice Abbott. I did find a reference to a relationship with Thelma Wood and kept that with a citation.

Sources I checked were the biographies of Millay by Nancy Milford and Daniel Mark Epstein, Phillip Herring's biography of Djuna Barnes, and Suzanne Rodriguez's biography of Natalie Barney.

Here is the paragraph before I started editing. If any of the stuff I cut can be verified, then by all means restore it.


 * "Millay, a bisexual, had well-known affairs with other important women in the writing community, which were at times problematic. In late 1912 she spent time in Vienna, Austria and travelled through Italy and Albania. She later went to Paris, where she met novelist Djuna Barnes, with whom she had a strained romantic relationship. Their liaison was marred by mutual jealousy, partly due to a literary rivalry, but mostly because Millay also had an affair with Barnes' long time partner, sculptress Thelma Ellen Wood. Millay allowed her involvement with both Barnes and Wood to come to light, spawning a terrible fight between the three lovers. Both Barnes and Wood ended their relationships with Millay and remained together, but later separated after feuding about another woman. Millay also was involved for some time with the photographer Berenice Abbott, and had a short affair with writer Natalie Barney." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celithemis (talk • contribs) 00:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that it is surprising that there is no mention of her alcohol and drug use in the article. I have read that she drank much and used heroin regularly. - Two Halves, but what does he know????? — Preceding undated comment added 23:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * According to Nancy Milford's biography, through most of Millay's adulthood she drank to excess. Later, in middle age, both she and her husband Eugen over-used prescription drugs. She gradually managed to cure her addictions, but they had caused a toll on her health. It might be speculation--or an educated guess--that that is why she died quite young. Younggoldchip (talk) 20:27, 24 April 2011 (UTC)younggoldchip

Why is it not mentioned she was a polyamorist? She's mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polyamorists --SvenAERTS (talk) 23:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Someone should really put the word "bisexual" back in the article itself. I might end up doin git myself, but it would be lovely if someone else took the shot for me lmao. Mildlydiscouraging (talk) 01:42, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm sure this comment will get deleted. But, evidently, the male chauvinist pig who wrote her biography won't. He can have his fun smearing and whitewashing a truly great person. Do tell. Where is his Pulitzer, or Robert Frost award, etc. I guess he should get an award for being allowed to be the back stabbing snake that he is. And, don't tell me this isn't a him-a nobody, nothing, no talent, never was zip. Maybe you should find someone a little less biased to write this biography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8081:2300:348f:ada7:4977:611c:7f18 (talk) 22:12, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

What to do?
"Many consider "Renascence" and "The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver" to be her finest works." This has been tagged with a weasel-words tag for a while, and I think it needs a cite. "Renascence" was very well received, but "Harp-Weaver"? It's not even particularly representative of her work, nor very distinctive. It might be true, though - critics, even people I otherwise agree with (like Martin Gardner), have said all kinds of bizarre stuff about Millay. Vultur (talk) 16:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

factual error regarding Pulitzer Prize for Poetry
The current wiki states: "She won the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry in 1923, for The Harp-Weaver, and Other Poems. She was the first woman to be so honored for poetry."

However, http://www.pulitzer.org/bycat/Poetry states ESVM was not the first woman to receive the Pulitzer for Poetry. Also, the Pulitzer for ESVM was a recognition of more works than are stated in the current wiki:


 * 1918 Love Songs by Sara Teasdale
 * 1919 Old Road to Paradise by Margaret Widdemer
 * 1923 The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver: A Few Figs from Thistles: Eight Sonnets in American Poetry, 1922. A Miscellany by Edna St. Vincent Millay (Harper) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.254.195.187 (talk) 09:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Polyamorous?
There is a discussion as to whether Ms. Millay belongs in List of polyamorists and Category:Polyamorous people at Category talk:Polyamorous people. --Andrewaskew (talk) 01:16, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Clarify, please
'Millay's reputation was damaged by the poetry she wrote about the Allied war effort during World War II.' We can't see what this means. Any flesh on the bones? Valetude (talk) 14:39, 11 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I added more detail. Span (talk) 16:54, 11 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Still not clear, Spangle. Was her war poetry of a low standard? Or was she being criticized for renouncing her pacifism? Valetude (talk) 19:18, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

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Non sequitur
She would soon fall out of love, bluntly answering a marriage proposal: "Never ask a girl poet to marry you."
 * This relates to nothing before or after. Does it just mean that she tended to fall out of love easily? Valetude (talk) 22:10, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 March 2020 and 1 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Clemonskatalogs. Peer reviewers: Naomiper, HHonore22.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:10, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Lede should be shorter
About two-thirds of stuff in current lead or intro segment should be moved into the body of the article. Lead should briefly summarize topic's notability and content of article which it precedes. 2602:252:D6A:B2C0:2C1C:CAB4:B3AA:3E21 (talk) 00:16, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Genderfluid?
I've heard for years that Millay preferred to be called St. Vincent and used "he/him" pronouns. I'm not sure if there's any real evidence of that. Is anyone familiar? In retrospect, it seems like a false story that maybe Wikipedia itself once repeated. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 11:43, 18 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Currently we do have evidence of Millay being referred to as "Vincent", detailed in Daniel Mark Epstein's 2001 book and referenced in the Wikipedia article. With a few quick online searches, I can't find anything online about her using "he/him" pronouns or that ever being mentioned in this article. I did find a Humanities article that discusses how she often utilized a male voice in her poetry. Interestingly, as the first born, she signed letters to her mother as “your devoted son”. I wouldn't take this to mean she was transgender, but she certainly played with gender. BappleBusiness[talk] 01:49, 20 December 2022 (UTC)