Talk:Education in China/Archive 1

Incorrect enrollment information on right hand side table
The number of primary (17.3m), junior (19.2m), and senior secondary students (8.7m) given on the right side of the page is incorrect, and inconsistent with numbers given in the body of the article. The source for these numbers is the following Guardian article, and I question its accuracy. According to government white papers, there were 131.95 million primary students as of 1995, a number more consistent with known population demographics, enrollment rates, and literacy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.107.22 (talk) 19:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Heavy POV: authors unable to give credit where credit is due
The lead sentence implied to the ignorant that education is "now" available to all thanks to Deng's market reforms, and this was bullshit. Education for all was introduced immediately upon the Communist takeover but Western writers seem constitutionally unable to admit that totalitarian Communist societies deliver the goods, especially at first, to the ordinary slob. Basically, the article needs to make the NPOV fact clear: before 1949, education was for the elite, and after 1949, it was available to all...except (cf. Ji-Li Jiang's Red Scarf Girl) children of "bourgeois" who got, instead of education, re-education, a form of education which became a nightmare only after 1966.vjgc

The first section simply skipped 1949..1966 and needed to be rectified.

Chinese Page and Other Languages
I still don't know how to type Chinese well in unicode, but I think this should be linked to the Chinese wikipedia page. Poseidon^3 08:21, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This should be called "Education in the People's Republic of China" WhisperToMe 04:20, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"China"/"PRC" vs. "mainland China" for page titles
Following the long discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) regarding proper titling of Mainland China-related topics, polls for each single case has now been started here. Please come and join the discussion, and cast your vote. Thank you. &mdash; Instantnood 14:50, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

English Immersion
We should consider adding in something about English Immersion schooling in China, which is becoming more and more common in larger urban centers. Colipon+(T) 00:37, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How old is this article?
"Estimates predict, however, that the demand for teachers will drop in the late 1990s because of an anticipated decrease in primary-school enrollments." Estimates predict, in the 1990s? If I'm not mistaken, the information should already be availble and we should know if the estimates were accurate or not. 67.161.208.117 20:26, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * As the bottom of the article says:

-4.154.105.163 15:23, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Most of the text was updated in July 1987. Please update as needed.

AGREED!!! This article is desperately in need of an update!!!
It is now 2007, this article can not be used for any purpose other than historical background. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.58.0.134 (talk) 17:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

Most of this article needs to be deleted. So much of it talks about the past that when it speaks in the present tense, it's probably too outdated to be relied upon. The whole article fails because of this. And it's written in strange english with occasional mistakes. And it's way too positive and unbalanced. It neds to be scrapped and rewritten by objective, modern, fluent english speakers.

Template:Education infobox
I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

So what percentage of the population has the national equivalent of a tenth grade education? What % has at least a 4th grade education? I can't determine that from this article. 192.122.237.11 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:49, 13 September 2011 (UTC).

Random inline comment
Seanmarvel 07:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC) actually, two main trends should be paid attention to:1. pramary education, figure of NOT enrolled, especially those west/interorial area compared with coastal area.2.how many graduates from university comparing the how many graduates cannot find job indicates the wrong direction of policy put their investment into... further more, combine the change in policy with the economic consideration.

Linking to school subjects
Hi,

I'm very new to Wikipedia editing, but I thought I'd start a topic about if we should link to school subjects when they are listed in an article about education. Chances are someone has already started a discussion on this very subject, but I am not aware of it and I have not found a wikipedia learning page on it.

I'd have to say I think it is a good idea to go ahead and link to the article discussing each school subject if the article you are writing is about education.

I welcome feedback on the subject, even if it is just to say that this subject has already been discussed.

Thanks, -Jon

Controversies
gw2005 22:02, 27 Jan 2008 (UTC) There is no section of this article on the controversies of the Chinese educational system, all of them were stated within each of the sections. Creating an seperate section would be nice. Controversies such as how the social structure does not support or need a large university/college educated work force. Since there is already a excess amount of them in the urban area.
 * I agree. Some mention also needs to be made of the inaccuracies and lies chinese children are taught, specifically in regards to history (such as a unified Mao-led China single handedly defeating Japan in the Second World War). --NEMT (talk) 05:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Outdated text
"In the spring 2007 China will conduct a national evaluation of its universities. The results of this evaluation will be used to support the next major planned policy initiative." Could someone who's familiar with the situation update this? r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 16:07, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

New WSJ article out
Might have some relevance for Education in Hong Kong and Education in Macau as well. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 13:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Education as a Path to Conformity
Please see the discussion at User_talk:Rjanag regarding "Education as a Path to Conformity" article by Didi Kirsten Tatlow in ''The New York Times Fred Talk 15:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

China Luring Scholars to Make Universities Great
This New York Times article, "China Luring Scholars to Make Universities Great" By HOWARD W. FRENCH October 28, 2005 is useful, but not for referencing the broad expansion of university education. For the the WSJ article cited above is more useful despite its focus on problems of expansion. Fred Talk 16:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In any case, relying too heavily on news articles (whether they be NYT or Xinhua) would be a problem. These articles often just capture one view, at one moment in time, sometimes missing the forest for the trees. Scholarly articles would be better when possible. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 16:51, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, but can you find any that address the questions of conformity and lack of creativity and the problems resulting from rapid expansion? Fred Talk 16:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The Farrell & Grant article that I listed on my talk page is perfect for that. But if it's used it should also be balanced against other articles, such as Kirby, that point to more recent trends. The underlying thing to keep in mind is that nothing in China is black and white, there are several aspects to issues like this. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 16:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Censorship
I see nothing on state sponsored academic censorship. Certainly this deserves attention as it is an authoritarian system at the helm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.212.67.146 (talk) 13:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Copyvio?
Much of this article appears to have been copy and pasted from here. As far as I can tell, this is copyrighted material. If I am wrong, please let me know.Homunculus (duihua) 06:46, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The content comes from Library of Congress Country Studies, which are in the public domain and can be incorporated into Wikipedia. The real source for these is . MER-C 11:03, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, good. Glad I asked. Homunculus (duihua) 15:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Minority education for the uyghur
The chinese government allows ethnic minorities like the uyghur to attend either uyghur or chinese schools. At the uyghur school, thry are allowed to observe islamic religious practices such as ramadan while forbidding it at chinese schools.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/china/100928/uighurs-border-culture-islam

Kathleen E. McLaughlinOctober 26, 2010 13:52Updated October 31, 2010 06:33

Borderland: All's not quiet on China's western front

"They attend Chinese high school rather than Uighur school, hoping for an advantage in future studies and jobs. In making that choice, they lost the right to wear their head coverings and celebrate their religious holidays at school. Though they could ask for these things, their teachers don’t stop the clock on studies when the five-day Eid holiday rolls around"

http://books.google.com/books?id=DMU8Ue0HECcC&pg=PA127#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=4q53niG5MLIC&pg=PA107#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jl_Zw9QzvxEC&pg=PA135#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=qlZQWWlPGssC&pg=PA262#v=onepage&q&f=false

A class of assimilated uyghurs who speak chinese are known as "chinese uighur".

http://books.google.com/books?id=yT8Yc994CuUC&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=yT8Yc994CuUC&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q&f=false

The chinese government encourages uyghurs to worship and practice islam.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yT8Yc994CuUC&pg=PA54#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 02:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * How many students get Education in languages of Ethnic Minorities?--Kaiyr (talk) 16:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Education inequality - separate page
I'm a student working with the Rice University's WikiEdu program, and I'd like to start a new article that focuses more specifically on educational inequality in China. Currently, references to education stratification (both historical and current) are scattered throughout the article. In the new article, which I would title "Education inequality in China," I would delve deeper into different kinds of inequality within China's education system, and organize it in a more coherent, readable manner. Kqzhong (talk) 02:18, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a great project, one that could enrich the whole set of articles dealing with Chinese education and Chinese society. A couple of questions or suggestions, though. Maybe you could check (apologies if you already have) the related articles in these areas to see how your new article would link into them (also maybe check parallel articles on education/ inequality in other countries). It might affect the structure and content of your article when you see how the other articles are structured and where to add links to your article. This might lead to recasting your title, which in its present form might run the danger of being "under the radar" because people might not search these words. It would be good practice to make your work parallel (you might even edit those articles).


 * Would your article cover both unequal access to education and "education and inequality"? That would be another excellent topic (though I haven't searched to see if it already covered). In either case, I hope that you can expand the coverage of pre-1949 China, even if only in a rudimentary way, since education was central to the imperial system, and the theory was that it would reduce inequality.


 * I'll look forward to the article or articles!


 * Cheers, ch (talk) 18:17, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Update: I've started writing this article, and I've moved a very early draft out of my Sandbox. I will continue expanding upon what I have in the coming weeks, which will take a considerable amount of time, as there are a lot of issues to address that have been at least partially covered in other articles. I've written a proposal outlining what I plan to include in my article, and all are welcome to take a look! Kqzhong (talk) 22:15, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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School uniforms in China
As a unique form of culture, school uniform play an important role in the performance of a country or region's economic, educational, cultural level and religious belief. A hundred years ago, school uniforms were regarded as a symbol of progress. Nowadays, the style of uniforms is more important than the sense of identity and sense of belongings.

Articles from Sixth Tone
WhisperToMe (talk) 00:44, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
 * http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1004260/lottery-based-private-school-admission-worries-chinese-parents
 * http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1807/why-has-happy-education-produced-unhappy-students%3F
 * http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1004478/randomized-school-admissions-rattle-shanghais-rat-race

Incorrect representation of China's PISA ranking
This sentence, in the 'Development' section, has no justification or relevance: "While averages across the breadth of other countries are reported, China's rankings are taken from only a few select districts"

Here is the source for it: https://thediplomat.com/2013/12/china-cheats-the-pisa-exams/

The rankings were not of "China". OECD itself ALWAYS uses "Shanghai (CHina)" or "BJSG (China)". Thus, the rankings are not of "China".

Moreover, this is not "cheating", since other countries also do the same (India also nominated only 2 out of its 29 states in 2009). Such selective nomination is allowed in PISA.

I propose we remove this text and source.

Honoredebalzac345 (talk) 16:58, 9 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The Diplomat is generally reliable per Reliable sources/Perennial sources. We don’t remove WP:RS without a really good reason, an editor’s personal opinion does not suffice. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 17:02, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Even if the RS misrepresents the truth, as judged by other RS? Surely no RS is perfect? I believe this is a good reason to remove it, since it misrepresents China's entry in PISA. Will it be OK if I included additional sources about how it is acceptable for other countries to selectively nominate their regions?

Moreover, it's not my personal opinion. PISA says you can selectively nominate, not me. Honoredebalzac345 (talk) 17:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You would need a source directly saying that the RS misrepresents the truth. Also just a note, the “cheating” language is only in the title, we don’t generally give titles as much weight as the body of an article if that helps you. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 17:23, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

What if an RS lies?

Especially when there are many other RS indicating (though not directly, why would they do that?) that the RS has published factually incorrect information?

Are we to trust RSes blindly?

I believe that we should either remove this content and RS, or include other RSes that indicate that its not cheating and such selective nomination is allowed under PISA. Currently, this "reliable" source falsely states that China cheated and broke the rules. Honoredebalzac345 (talk) 21:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ruolinlin, DavidHSH. Peer reviewers: Samanthasoracco.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 8 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Xinyi Zhang0218.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jefferyjiju.

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