Talk:Education in New York City/Archives/2015

Notable public schools
I have deleted two of the schools under the public schools category. I think that only prestigious schools with a very rich history should be included. For a school to be included because it offers a program that is not very popular seems unfair. Kwazyutopia19 01:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)KwazyUtopia19

Notable parochial schools
Catholic high schools used to be represented (like Jewish and Muslim schools) with a single example. Recently several more have been added. What should be the policy here? Should most of these schools go to their respective Borough articles, as well as to the various education lists for New York? Is it better to have more than one example, or should a policy of strict austerity (to avoid inevitable clogging and accumulation) be followed? —— Shakescene (talk) 23:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Do libraries, museums and research belong here?
Should Libraries, Museums, and/or Scientific research all be in this article. They can certainly be educational, as can a lot of similar things, but I wouldn't have thought they fell under the perview of this article (and there are many other NYC article dealing with similar things; culture, recreation etc.)? - Matthew238 00:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Wagner College
Could someone include Wagner College here? The school is really moving up and has a higher Princeton Review Selectivity Rating than Eugene Lang, Pace, and others in the list. Jeremy Peter Green 03:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The Interfaith Center of New York

 * I have added this in the section Weblinks. Does anybody disagree?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.72.27.177 09:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Hunter College High School
Is Hunter College High School really a public high school? While it is tuition-free, it is not run under the banner of the New York Department of Education.

Fair use rationale for Image:City ed logo.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Private school ratings
The paragraph about private schools currently reads:"There are approximately 900 additional privately run secular and religious schools in the city, some of which are among the top independent schools in the nation. In 2008, the New York Sun letter graded the top private schools of New York City, ranking them from greatest to least, which went as follows : Brearley School (A+), Collegiate School (A), Trinity School (A), Chapin School (A), Horace Mann School (A), Spence School (A), Dalton School (B+), Ramaz School (B+), Ethical Culture Fieldston School (B), Riverdale Country School (B), Poly Prep (B), Saint Anne's School (B), Packer Collegiate Institute (C), United Nations International School (C), Calhoun School (C), Dwight School (C), Nightingale-Bamford School (C), Browning School (C), Hewitt School (D), Trevor Day School (D), Birch Wathen Lenox School (D), Columbia Grammar & Preparatory School (D), and The Berkeley Caroll School (D)."

I don't know enough about private schools in New York to attempt rewriting this myself, but compared with similar paragraphs in this article, this is clearly overkill that will bewilder non-New Yorkers. Perhaps the grades might (arguably) fit in a footnote, but what's needed when we mention only a couple of Catholic and a couple of Jewish and Muslim schools is something shorter that gives notable examples, preferably with an indication for outsiders of why they're notable (to parallel, for example, the Bronx High School of Science). There's slightly more space for individual schools in the borough articles' education sections (e.g. The Bronx). —— Shakescene (talk) 22:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

CUNY Numbers
The first paragraph on higher education says that New York City has about 594,000 students. Later, the paragraph on CUNY says both that it has over 450,000 students and enrolls about half the college students in New York. As far as I can tell, (over) 450,000 is not half of 594,000. Could someone with more knowledge clarify this? --Harel Newman (talk) 04:58, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

reverts of November 5–6, 2010
Instead of flipping back and forth between two sets of good-faith edits (I don't think any of them are vandalism), I suggest reorganizing the section and making clear how it's organized, either topically or alphabetically.

Rankings of various kinds are okay if they're reasonably grounded and if they're fully sourced, e.g., don't just name the magazine carrying them but give the article title, author, issue date, page number, and so on, with a proper reference.

Nick Levinson (talk) 01:25, 7 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm honestly not closely or emotionally involved with this article or its subject matter. (Closest I ever got was visiting Columbia when in high school in 1965 and deciding not to apply. However as an outsider I've worked a lot on The Bronx and New York City politics articles.) I didn't like the edit wars, either, and came in at the end, but looking at the separation of Barnard from Columbia didn't make much sense to me, which prompted me to revert to the previous order. Both the unreverted St John's and the Barnard paragraphs had mentioned their school's high selectivity, with the unreverted version of St John's also talking about the U.S. News rating; since I'd reverted to the unpromotional version of St John's, I also, to be fair, removed the uncited (although I think true) "highly selective" from Barnard. ¶ My feeling is that if we mention one of all these colleges as selective, then we have to mention (with some kind of citation) all of the selective ones to avoid unfair comparisons. It's a bit silly to call Columbia "selective" if she's in the Ivy League, but foreigners and schoolchildren might not know that (and all of the Ivy League wasn't always so selective.) And then how do you compare selectivity? Almost every school worth a separate mention in this article has some kinds of admission process and thus some degree of selectivity. One could give acceptance rates, but my personal feeling (again) is that sort of statistic would push this article away from a general encyclopedia and more towards the turf of numberless College Guides, including U.S. News & World Report's. More interesting to the general reader than "how good" a school is might be things like majors offered or the achievements of students, graduates and faculty, again so long as it doesn't look like a collection of admission brochure extracts. —— Shakescene (talk) 01:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking over this whole article for the first time in a while, I see that it's become a coat-rack for boosters of other schools to add various promotional details with peacock terms like "unrivaled" and "trailblazers". The tough part is to separate interesting or significant details (which inform outsiders and stop this being a mere listing) from the uncited (or even cited) fluff. I don't have the time (or really the knowledge) to do much right now. —— Shakescene (talk) 02:08, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree with Shakescene. All the collateral "stuff" about colleges needs to go. The size of the schools matters, so the huge schools can have a detail or two about size and no of campuses, mainly. Over 10,000 students? The article is supposed to be a summary not WP:SPAM for the colleges. Student7 (talk) 13:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I just took out some stuff. Maybe not enough. Feel free to combine single sentences or eliminate more. Student7 (talk) 22:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


 * No time to talk about it now (or do my own editing) but the approach I was contemplating was a little different: to pull Pace University out from between Fordham and St John's, so that the two nationally-important Catholic universities (in two different boroughs) could go into one paragraph or pair of paragraphs. I don't know what to do with Pace (it's more than a law & biz school, but I don't know how much more). And selectivity is what I would have taken out of Cooper Union first because it's the least important element of a rather remarkable institution (80% engineering; 20% art) founded by a rather remarkable man (Peter Cooper). Outsiders (e.g. me) are less interested in Cooper Union's acceptance rate than its distinguishing characteristics (for example, is it still tuition-free?). None of this is to criticize you for tackling the hard work I hadn't started myself. —— Shakescene (talk) 02:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

History?
There is no "history" subsection, which is too bad. Being a large area, the city has sometimes done things that other areas could not consider.

Such is the case with "double grades" during the 1940s. There were A and B grades, relating not to ability but to age. The "A" classes started in (say) September, the "B" class started their year in January. A child barely too young to start the first grade in September, would enter grade 1B in January.

Children could skip half or full grades. Alternately, they could be held back a half-grade, to redo the semester. It was imaginative IMO and probably needs a short article of its own to be summarized here and at least referenced or "see also" from a bunch of other Education articles.

Madrasa Schools
I'm trying to figure out where to put a Madrasa section. There are several throughout New York City. Darul Uloom New York, and others should be added.

Twillisjr (talk) 05:21, 14 November 2012 (UTC)