Talk:Education in Thailand/Archive 1

Template:Education infobox
I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Should children centre become Child centered or Child centred ?

- I think it should. I didn't change much to that paragraph when I added the rest of the article. I think the original author is Thai and I admire his/her initiative in  creating  the article. Kudpung 18:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kudpung (talk • contribs)

Education in Thailand
Well, I've had a look at it; there's a lot of information there, which was interesting for me, but there's so little in the way of inline references that it's hard to disentangle the fact from the opinion. My other worry is that it's too western-centric, with a long section on the teaching of English - much as I'm interested in it myself, it's just one subject. I'm not sure I'm in a position to add much to this one though - what we really need is someone who can process a lot of Thai-language sources. HenryFlower 11:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Education in Thailand
Check out Education in Thailand, to which I added the subsection Thaification and images cropped from the back of a series 14/15 100-baht bill [replaced in 2005 by series 15 (revised), which really is the 15th as BoT skipped #13].
 * The article is fairly new, and I'm not happy with it. For one, I don't see any mention of the military-style uniforms worn by government teachers (but not contract farangs.) MY teachers wore military-style uniforms with simulated military rank when I went to Gordon Military College (Barnesville GA), but it was a military college back then. Are uniformed teachers so common in Asia that it is not worthy of mention?
 * Another item I don't see is the inclusion of Isan culture, at least since the 1990s, in schools from primary level on up to Fine Arts colleges.


 * Another gaping void is any mention of the boarding schools for poor teens funded by Phra O. I know they exist only because there's one nearby.


 * Yet another, the Khun Poom fund for autistic and other learning-disabled children. I only know about because my dyslexic grandson and a neighbor's beautiful but extremely shy granddaughter received grants from it (he quit school and gave his back because reading gives him real headaches, and he was too far behind; she's going on to college). Speaking of girls: (edited)Pawyilee (talk) 14:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comments on my Talk page. The article is fairly new, and needs to "grow up". When it does, the over-long section on English language instruction should be be to an article in its own write. Meanwhile, Patiwat has objected to the subsection on "Thaification" as being a "point of view" NOT supported by a scholarly article. He also thinks the "fair use rationale" for the images cropped from a 100 Baht note isn't adequate, but he hasn't deleted anything yet. Pawyilee (talk) 11:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Gaping Voids
You're probably not the only one that's not happy with it, but now it is an article in proper English instead of the admirable but very short stub there was before. Wikipedians can only contribute what they know. Other editors are heartily encouraged to expand. If it's in context and concerns the general overview of education in the country, certainly the special schools if they contribute on a significant scale to education in general, it would certainly help to expand the article. The fact that the teachers wear uniform may not be of encyclopedic value. In Thailand almost all civil servants of lower rank wear uniforms with fake medal ribbons, until they reach a rank where they can dispense with uniforms altogether.Kudpung (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be careful about saying the medals are fake, people who wear them can be touchy about that. That being said, my gaping void comments come from my own gaping ignorance. If you've been to my user page, then you know I'm no scholar. I contributed the Thaification paragraph, but won't cry if some other editor deletes it. I'll just be watching the article without making further edits. Pawyilee (talk) 10:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

English Language in Thai Education
It is a long section, but it just happens to be something the author knows a little bit about. It's certainly a part of education in Thailand - a major one too - you don't get into college without it. Maybe some suggestions on how to better place it in the article would be welcome, as would also some contributions on the other subjects that are taught.Kudpung (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Images available
These image were deleted by Wikipedia, so  I  have deleted their placeholders.

Spam Attacks and Vandalism
Mid May through mid June 08 this page came under some spam attacks and under some totally irrelevant additions by an obvious non-native English writer. In an encyclopedia, IHMO, in articles about education we need to be especially vigilant to avoid such anonymous drivel creeping in and maybe get the IP numbers banned. Thanks go to Pawyilee for pointing out and trying to combat some of the problems. It's nice to know that there are people who are watching and who care :-)Kudpung (talk) 21:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Age groups
The current version of the article compares the Thai system to the U.S.A. grading system. This is not a very useful way of informing an international readership. It would be better to replace all grade references to corresponding age groups. &minus;Woodstone (talk) 14:00, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

and a minimum of nine years' school attendance is mandatory.
Note that the statement "and a minimum of nine years' school attendance is mandatory." would be more useful to a reader if it said, "and a minimum of nine years' school attendance is mandatory by law, but rarely if ever enforced." A very large segment of workers have attended less than 6 years or even 4 years of education. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsbrownie (talk • contribs) 06:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I find that rather irrelevant, since the nine-year requirement did not exist then. The time of four years' mandatory schooling was long ago, and a more direct parameter would better reflect the current state of school attendance. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Whether a certain number of students skip class in any particular nation is irrelevant to describing the Thai school system.
 * Kortoso (talk) 08:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism
There has been more vandalism to the article, particularly obscenities. As this is an article about Education, let's all conrinue to  be vigilant  and edit such  stuff out.

-Having just returned from a two-week visit to Thailand and having had discussions with many people at all social levels, including a school director, I wonder why there is no mention of the numbers of people in Thailand with no more than 4th grade education (even young people), and the requirements for parents to pay for transportation and school supplies for students (often prohibitive for the poor, especially in rural areas). A formal requirement for 9 years of schooling is a good start, but what are the statistics on the extent to which this is realized? In Thailand I saw many children of school age working; in a visit to neighboring Laos, every school-age child I saw was in uniform on the way to or from or at school. Personally, I do not care how well they are learning English (although I heard this concern over and over), since in a few years Mandarin may be much more economically advantageous. But if there is not a requirement for and free access to world-class science and math education, the long term economic consequences could be disastrous. Pretending these are widely available, when in fact they are not, will not help.

Additions
Let's be sure that any additions are relevant, do  not  duplicate information provided in  other paragraphs, and are written in  acceptable English Kudpung (talk) 11:17, 19 January 2009 (UTC)style for the encyclopedia.

Reassessment
The scope of this article covers the past  and present situation  of education  in  Thailand  adequately for an encyclopedia entry. A message has been left on Pauls's talk  page requesting  that  he reassess this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kudpung (talk • contribs) 06:59, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I have edited a small part of the article (the lead); you might want to ask a third opinion for a more neutral view. Anyway, upon re-inspection, I believe the article is developed enough for C-class, but still has issues that preventing it from meeting B-class requirements. The article structure still needs improvement; the overview & history section is quite a mess and hard to follow, content is duplicated between sections, and items of little relevance are still prevalent. I haven't read through the article carefully yet, but the somewhat haphazard arrangement of content prevents one from capturing the full picture. The article is still inadequately sourced, and a lot more could be said about the content of the current and past national curricula and the issues regarding education quality (shortage of quality teachers, problems with rote-learning, high demand for cram schooling, over-competitiveness of university entrance exams, difficulty implementing the new national curriculum and child-centred learning, the controversial and hectic introduction of the CUAS, etc). I don't usually work on education articles, but seeing as the Education WikiProject doesn't seem to be very active, I'm taking the liberty to assess for both WikiProjects. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thaification
Paywilee's 'Thaification' contribution may  not be perfectly  at  home here. It is certainly  more destined for inclusion in a more general  Thailand article, or in  the Thaification  article itself, leaving  a link to  it  on  this Education  pageKudpung (talk) 07:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pawyilee agrees. Perhaps the paragraph name and its main article should be changed to Socialization, keep the images of the backs of Series 14 and 15 bank notes with the quote from Rama V. Also needed, especially in light of the backlash against representative democracy, is that practically every administration since has maintained that raising levels of education was the only road to democratization. Somewhere it needs to be noted that many, if not mostm people against dimocracy in Thailand were educated abroad or in Westernized universities in Bangkok, and have become, or support, a Western-style colonial administration in Thailand. I would say, thanks to the level of education in Thailand, Thaification has been a success in every region but the Deep South--and the Bangkok elite refuse to admit it. That is, I would say it if I were a scholar of sufficient stature to get a peer-reviewed article published. A book on the subject would be monumental in size, as it would have to encompass all age and societies since formal education came about, and was either denied to common people to keep them in their place, or offered to them only to have the formally elite lose theirs. Pawyilee (talk) 08:34, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments
Thanks, Kudpung, for the invitation to comment. The bulk of the article looks good to me, with the exception, already noted, of a lack of citations.

I do have problems with two sections: firstly the section on Teacher development and associated problems. A minor point: the use of quotations looks very odd - they aren't integrated into the text, but seem to run parallel to it. More importantly, a lot of this section is not just unsupported by citations, it expresses what can only ever be personal opinions. Some of them seem odd opinions at that (does students doing a crossword puzzle really "expose their teachers to the embarrassment of losing face"?).

Secondly the section on Native speaker teachers. Much of this looks like comments from a forum for teachers who enjoy nothing more that to air their gripes to one another; I don't think it's something that belongs in an encyclopedia article beyond the bare facts and any interpretations and comments which have been published at least in newspapers or articles.

Apart from these sections, though, the article's coming on very well.

HenryFlower 16:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for you excellent advice Henry. I have edited just a few things that  could be considered POV, and deleted some non-encyclopedic information. It's not enough, I know, but time is not on my side. I would welcome the efforts of any  contributors to improve the article.Kudpung (talk) 14:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate entries
Subject heading School system has this paragraph:
 * Village and sub-district schools usually provide pre-school kindergarten (anuban) and elementary classes, while in the district towns, schools will serve their areas with comprehensive schools with all the classes from kindergarten to age 14, and separate secondary schools for ages 11 through 17.

Subject heading Organisation/Infrastructure has two paragraphs beginning:
 * Almost all villages have a primary school....

--Pawyilee (talk) 01:37, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

The article has a PDF copy on the internet
I noted much of this article is identical to a PDF made of PPTs, available at http://human.uru.ac.th/ThaiStudies/Thai%20Education%20PP.pdf

- wonder if the author has used the same text for both uses? Is this a problem? 61.90.64.106 (talk) 08:46, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I can  assure everyone here that  the Wikipedia text  existed well before this PDF. Our content is released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; there's nothing  much  we can do  if someone else uses it.--Kudpung (talk) 10:30, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Sources modified on Education in Thailand
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I have just attempted to maintain the sources on Education in Thailand. I managed to add archive links to 5 5 sources, out of the total 5 I modified, whiling tagging 0 as dead.

Please take a moment to review my changes to verify that the change is accurate and correct. If it isn't, please modify it accordingly and if necessary tag that source with to keep Cyberbot from modifying it any further. Alternatively, you can also add  to keep me off the page's sources altogether. Let other users know that you have reviewed my edit by leaving a comment on this post.

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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090210082209/http://www.chula.ac.th:80/chula/en/about/brief_en.html to http://www.chula.ac.th/chula/en/about/brief_en.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090327085309/http://www.onec.go.th/publication/ed2004/ed2004.pdf to http://www.onec.go.th/publication/ed2004/ed2004.pdf
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111028074958/http://www.moe.go.th/English/inter_school/index_eng.htm to http://www.moe.go.th/English/inter_school/index_eng.htm
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130714175621/http://www.moe.go.th:80/English/inter_school/schoolname_in_eng.htm to http://www.moe.go.th/English/inter_school/schoolname_in_eng.htm
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110719173534/http://www.moe.go.th/English/inter_school/schoolname_out_eng.htm to http://www.moe.go.th/English/inter_school/schoolname_out_eng.htm

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universities
http://inter.mua.go.th/history-of-thai-higher-education/ looks relevant

Appallingly bad article with "facts" totally without reference, incorrect information and mis-understandings. Please delete / hide until improved
A worried father posted on a forum after having read this "Education in Thailand" Wikipedia page I read the page and I think it is shocking how bad it is. This is definitely one of the worst Wikipedia pages I have ever read The page looks like it has been written by a bunch of different foreign teachers with bachelor degrees in any field who finally got fired from Thai schools because of their alcoholism and want to take revenge any way they can. The page draws conclusions from mysterious non named surveys, it states "facts" totally without reference, sometimes a reputable organisation that of course has formally published its work is mentioned but there is no link to the source, there are totally incorrect statements like "many high school students will commute 60–80 kilometres to schools in the nearest city", much in the page is in negatives like problems of course are expected, the word "bestowed" is sarcastically in quotation marks but no reference to why. Parts of the page show a total lack of understanding of Thai culture and present shallow western-biased conclusions when there is an underlying cultural difference that the author had no knowledge of. I can't be bothered to continue reading, the quality of the article is simply too low, the mistakes are too many. And this is what Wikipedia shows to fathers seeking knowledge because they worry about their children’s education? Now who am I to have this opinion? I've been in Thailand for over 25 years now, I haven't been teaching in Thailand for 20 years but I keep up pretty well. I work in one and the same multi-national in Bangkok for the last 19 years now but I live mainly in the Thai world. I speak and read Thai but write it badly... I took on interpreting in Thai Juvenile court 11 times I think it was 4-5 years ago helping westerners but stopped as the sadness of it all affected me too much I have a daughter in grade 6 in a bilingual school and I have followed her and the school closely, I have had numerous university educated western friends who worked as teachers in Thailand over the years I have been here. I have had no backpacker friends or Pattaya bar friends who take teaching jobs to be able to stay in Thailand when their money run out (although there are many of them). I don't call myself an expert on Thai education but I am alert and interested in the subject I am moving my own daughter to an international school next year because I am not pleased with the quality of the Thai educational system so do not mis-quote me and say that I am positive to it, I am certainly not. There are many problems with the Thai educational system, some Thai's openly talk about the failure of the Thai educational system and there clearly is some truth in it of course

I can see from the page history that the article quality problems I bring up has been known for years. I would never waste my time trying to correct this article, it took me over 25 years to understand underlying reasons in Thailand and any change I do will be changed to the more popular incorrect view of westerners who do not have the knowledge and insight to understand that what they post is wring

Please delete / hide the page from public view and continue to work on it within the Education and Thailand projects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.64.209 (talk) 16:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Many great Wikipedia articles don't start out that way. They become great through the accretion of contributions from interested, hard-working volunteers. Given your experience, it's our loss that you do not direct some of your vitriol to making this article better. Why not get started? Seligne (talk) 11:46, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

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