Talk:Education in the Faroe Islands/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Johanna (talk · contribs) 02:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Second on my "to review" list. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 02:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Comments
 * That redlink in the infobox is okay, I guess, but that page will probably never be created with reference to the Faroe Islands, so maybe pipe it? Also, shouldn't there be commas in that link?
 * Done.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 08:14, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have just now created the an article about the Ministry of Education, Research and Culture (Faroe Islands). EileenSanda (talk) 09:51, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * How do we know the literacy rate is probably the same as Denmark proper? (Revised: Looking down below in the article, I see that this is cited, but drop a ref to it up in the infobox as well).
 * Done.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 08:14, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "Compulsory education consists of…" should be "and the third year is optional."
 * Done.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 11:47, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not finding this lead satisfactory in terms of it being a solid and well-rounded introduction to every section of the article. Follow the section structure of the article and add appropriate details. The lead should probably be multiple paragraphs.
 * The lead is expanded.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 16:34, 5 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Looking at the bottom of the lead, why doesn't the infobox link go to the same list as the one here?
 * Done.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 11:47, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Put a comma after "25 and above"
 * Done.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 08:14, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "When it comes to the upper secondary schools, there is a majority of females who attend these schools. Regarding education on a higher level in the Faroe Islands there is a majority of men who take higher educations (higher than upper secondary school). Regarding young Faroese people who move to other countries to study, the majority of them are women." This is a very clunky wording, so might I suggest an alternative? Something along the lines of "The majority of students in upper secondary schools are women, although men represent the majority in higher education institutions. In addition, most young Faroese people who relocate to other countries to study are women."
 * Done.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 08:14, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I see in the last sentence you use generic he, and I would try to avoid that. Per MOS:GNL, we should try and use gender-neutral language when possible, so I would prefer seeing either singular they or, if you don't like that, he/she. This is especially true because you previously stated that the majority of students at this level are women. :)
 * Changed to "English language courses start from 4th grade and they are taught for 60 hours annually at that grade, 90 hours in 5th grade, 120 hours in 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th grade; pupils who chose to take the 10th grade have the option to get another 120 hours of English lessons.". Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 08:14, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Something that worries me a bit in this article is its reliance on primary sources. Virtually everything is from the education ministry or some other branch of the government, and we need secondary sources.
 * There are several secondary sources added in the article. It would be close to impossible to find secondary sources considering the nature of the article's subject and the country's size. I can see that this is the norm in such articles (e.g. Education in Malta, Education in Iceland, Education in Cyprus).


 * Also, some of the college descriptions seem overly repetitive and don't give any indication of its importance.
 * I'll try to reduce the volume, when possible. But, honestly, each one of these schools is a part of the educational system and shoulb be, at least, mentioned in the article.


 * "It is mostly men who take the maritime educations." Source?
 * ✅ The phrase is removed. I've kept a referenced phrase on the sex of graduates of the Centre of Maritime Studies and Engineering. The phrase will be readded if a suitable reference is found.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 12:28, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Most of my comments for the rest of the article are pretty repetitive from comments a few earlier, as many just repeat and repeat without giving any indication of why these schools are particularly important to the topic at hand.
 * The organization of the article is a bit random to me. I'm not sure why some of these schools are grouped together.
 * Primary and lower secondary education collectivelly are the Faroese compulsory schooling. That's why they're grouped together. I also grouped all forms of upper secondary education together. I think I should also group all vocational schools together and another sections should contain all forms of informal schooling (Music School, Evening School etc.). I'll preserve one section for higher education. I'm also thinking to add a history subsection within the overview section. Does all these modifications make any more sense? Hope they do.


 * There's a lot of scope problems here, as this article primarily consists of some statistics and a listing and brief descriptions of schools rather than a full-fledged article. For example, what was the development of educational institutions in this region? How are the various educational institutions perceived in terms of their quality to the rest of the world?
 * IMHO stats and brief descriptions of the composites of educational structure are necessary for the article. On the other hand I can understand thαt there's some info missing. I'm working on findingsome sources on this (e.g. OECD, scientific papers and books).

Putting on hold for seven days now, although I would suggest that I fail the nomination now and you can work on it and resubmit in the future, possibly after a copyedit and peer review. Thank you. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 04:27, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. Your remarks are a little bit abstract for me. It would be really helpful if you could check the article against the GA criteria and explain which specific issues need attention (per WP:GAREVIEW) for the article to be passed as a GA.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 11:41, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Here you go. Johanna  (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 23:48, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think that we'll be able to develop the article in a way that it reaches GA status in a week. But if proper directions are given, it's a doable task in a few weeks. Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 11:47, 19 October 2015 (UTC)




 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * Part of 2b is relying mostly on secondary sources.
 * Per WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, I don't think that there are any valid reasons to question the sources' reliability. They just describe things, they don't make any extraordinary claims for the value of the schools or education in the Faroe Islands. For example there is no source that could be deemed more reliable than Hagstova Føroya when it comes to statistics concerning the Faroe Islands.
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * As far as I understand, a history section is needed, plus a section that compares education in the Faroe Islands with education in other countries and present some facts about its quality. Do I get this right?
 * A history section has been added. A reference about similarities with the Danish educational system. I have searched the UN, OECD and couldn't find any assessment of Faroese education's quality. I even approached a professor from the University of the Faroe Islands and wouldn't get an answer.
 * Per WP:WIAGA: This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
 * Yes, I am aware of that, but at my current assessment, it didn't even meet that requirement. Now it does. Johanna  (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 22:19, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am aware of that, but at my current assessment, it didn't even meet that requirement. Now it does. Johanna  (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 22:19, 7 November 2015 (UTC)


 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * I'll check back on this one if/when you add more secondary source details.
 * This is way too vague. It'd be helpful if you could point specific cases that have WP:NPOV issues.Hansi667 (Neighbor Of The Beast) a penny for your thoughts? 12:23, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * The page has changed a lot from day to day recently.
 * It's not an edit war. It's a collaborative effort of EileenSanda and me to develop the page, since she speaks Faroese and has access to Faroese language sources. On the other hand, one would say that the article is not stable and I can't blame anyone for saying that.
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * After some serious redevelopment the article is stable lately.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * What is File:Hans Pauli Strøm fyrilestur.JPG really adding in the article? The graph would be helpful, but it can't be used as it would be non-free as well (I think).
 * That image was removed. Several other images of Faroese educational institutions have been added in their respective sections.
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Wonderful work, both of you! I have to say that I am impressed—I thought you guys wouldn't be able to get the article up to GA. But you did, so good job! :) The article looks much better to me. Johanna  (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 22:19, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Final evaluation by GA reviewer

 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail: