Talk:Edvard Munch/Archives/2012/April

Another self-portrait
I've uploaded another Munch self portrait, but didn't add it to the article.Image:Munch SelfBurningCigarette.jpg --sparkit (talk) 02:31, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

Munch museum redirect?
The Munch museum should have its own article, don't y'all agree? --Leifern 12:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It should. The Norwegian article might be useful for making an English one Cybbe 18:22, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Name pronounciation
What is the proper pronounciation of Munch's name?


 * To an English speaker it'd be something like "moonk", with "oo" as in "good"

And the first name?


 * I guess the last d is silent. --1523 21:01, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe that should be 'unvoiced'? - So it would sound something like 'edvart' ? Stumps 15:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Neither the pronunciation nor the discussion here seems to conform to the IPA values given at Norwegian language --Dupes 16:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Now it does. The sound in question is a retroflex assimilation of /r/ and /d/, just like in many Swedish dialects. That means that two underlying phonemes have merged into one sound. And to the best of my knowledge, Norwegian doesn't devoice word-final plosives.
 * Peter Isotalo 01:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * but it is actually devoiced in the name edvard for some reason, at least in most dialects —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.241.134.244 (talk) 19:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a Norwegian could create and upload a sound file? These IPA things are not very helpful to the average reader. TIA. Fwend (talk) 18:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio
Much from the opening paragraphs appears to have been plagiarized from http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/munch/. Assuming the date on that site (2002) is indeed correct, this material pretty clearly came from there. I don't know how to do this but I thought I'd mention it here; someone should either write something original or add a citation.
 * Material in question was added by Aecis on 3 August 2004 (see ). I'll try to work out how much text is affected. I'd rather not go through a rewrite-from-scratch on this article, if we can avoid it. Stumps 10:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have removed the following text as it seems to have been copied from the site mentioned above:
 * His intense and evocative treatment of anguish greatly influenced development of German expressionism in the early 20th century.
 * Re: 'The Scream': regarded as an icon of existential anguish and
 * These tragedies foreshadow the bleakness and pessimism of much of Munch's work. (because of the phrase"bleakness and pessimism")
 * Munch traveled to Paris in 1885, and his work began to show the influence of French painters &mdash; first of the impressionists, then of the postimpressionists and art nouveau design.
 * (Munch designed the sets for several Ibsen's plays)
 * Between 1892 and 1908, Munch divided his time between Paris and Berlin, where he became known for his etchings, his lithographs, and his woodcuts.
 * Munch died in Ekely, near Oslo, on January 23, 1944 ... has been rephrased.
 * in his honor (re Munch museum)
 * (recircle of friends)including the Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen (need a reliable source for this)
 * This obviously leaves some gaps in the current text, which we need to fill with properly sourced information. Stumps 10:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I can remember editing the article (it was one of my first edits here), but I can't remember this particular edit, and the link doesn't ring a bell either. However, the site clearly is copyrighted, so the copyvio info indeed needs to be removed. If I made an error (and it seems like I have), I apologize retroactively. A ecis  Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 11:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Copyedit request
The section "Of the five siblings only Andreas married, but he died a few months after the wedding. He would later say ..." makes it seem that Andreas is talking from the grave. Maybe someone can clarify; this could be a simple matter of changing that last "He" to "Edvard", if that is indeed who is being quoted. I don't want to make any precipitate changes while the page is featured on Google MarkBrooks 22:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Reference for Quote Needed
This article includes a quote attributed to Edvard Munch: "From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity." —Edvard Munch

This is attributed to Munch elsewhere on the internet. However this quote is also attributed to Thomas Moore:

* From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. o Thomas Moore in Lalla Rookh — The Veiled Prophet of Khorassan (st. 42)

...which can be seen at Wikiquote.

From searching on Google Book Search it looks as though the Moore quote is wrongly attributed and is not found in the book mentioned. It would be nice however to have a reference for the Munch quote. --Whoredom 19:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's quoted in the biography by Sue Prideaux (p. 327, "flowers will grow from my rotting corpse and I will live on in those blooms...death is the beginning of life, the beginning of new crystallisations."), and sourced to Jfire (talk) 04:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Jakac in the infobox
An infobox provides a quick summary of essentials—birth/death dates, nationality, and perhaps other information. In an artist bio, the other information may include "movement", "influenced", and "influenced by", and these fields are often a source of problems. The best course of action may be to leave them empty unless there is a strong case for filling them in—in the case of Munch, for instance, diligent research would probably turn up dozens of artists, and probably also a few writers, musicians, actors, etc., who have mentioned Munch as an influence on their work, or whose biographers have found Munch's influence in their work. But listing dozens of names in the infobox turns it into something like a trivia list, which seems undesirable in an infobox. The remedy for this, since everything in WP is supposed to be supported by sources, is to include only names that are well-sourced in the literature on Munch.

For example, virtually any book on Rubens will tell you that he influenced Jacob Jordaens and later Eugène Delacroix, so these would be appropriate & uncontroversial choices for the infobox. John Singer Sargent is not such a good choice; even if I've got 2 books on Sargent that emphasizes the Rubens influence, the Rubens literature doesn't generally recognize Sargent as his disciple. The naming of Božidar Jakac as an artist influenced by Munch can (as far as I can tell) be sourced only in the literature on Jakac, and, while it may be correct information, it is the kind of thing that will strike some as inappropriate for the infobox, because so many artists could be included on similar grounds. For another discussion of this issue, see Talk:Gustav Klimt.

I don't think having Jakac in the infobox is a terrible problem, but it does imply a stronger connection than may in fact exist, and I think this issue about infoboxes is ripe for more discussion. Ewulp (talk) 20:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

And just to clarify: the issue is not Jakac's notability. He is notable. The question is whether he, or any artist, should be given this particular role in the Munch infobox. Ewulp (talk) 20:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I fully agree, Ewulp. Munch was a seminal painter; the number of artists counting him as an influence no doubt numbers in the hundreds. It seems odd to single out this particular one for inclusion. Jfire (talk) 20:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I fully agree too, and think this issue should be discussed in a more visible place. --Eleassar my talk 22:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I've placed this at Template_talk:Infobox_Artist to see if other contributors have suggestions. Ewulp (talk) 23:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The infobox should be a skeleton summary of the article, not include new information. There's no mention of Jakac in the article, so there's no justification for including it in a summary of the article.  Ty  11:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In my view this field should be used sparingly, and usually only in cases of artists who were pretty contemporary to each other. We know Velazquez influenced John Singer Sargent 250 years later, but i don't think the infobox should say this. Johnbod (talk) 15:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

New record price
A new record price was recently set: "An anonymous buyer paid a world record price for an Edvard Munch at Sotheby's last month, spending £15m on Girls on a Bridge (1902)." http://arts.guardian.co.uk/art/visualart/story/0,,2287257,00.html --Gargamelik (talk) 23:10, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

References in Popular Culture
I just thought it might be interesting to add in the references to The Scream and Puberty made by Philip K. Dick in his novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. I wasn't sure about the heading title and position. If anyone wishes to edit or move this please feel free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamiemcginlay (talk • contribs) 23:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe better is add these very specifical information straightly into articles The Scream and Puberty (painting) than into general article about painter. --marv1N (talk) 19:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)