Talk:Edward Bernays/Archives/2017

A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis
The red link to 'Freud's A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis' under "Recognition and criticism". Is that not Freud's Introduction to Psychoanalysis? -- &#65293; Cy21 ➜ discuss 16:43, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Article needs overhauling
Shouldn't it proceed chronologically, as most biography articles do, beginning with childhood then going into career, perhaps with sections below on philosophy, and repeated techniques? ("Recognition and criticism" is a pretty normal final section.) As it is now, many of the sections overlap with each other and there is some unencyclopedic language ("Bernays' magisterial, philosophical touch"). groupuscule (talk) 04:44, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm hoping to work on this — maybe do a rewrite — when I find some time. Perhaps watchers will chime in with suggestions and thoughts. groupuscule (talk) 14:07, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Glad you're willing to work on this: it's an important article, that's not in great shape. I'm rather busy, but I hope I'll be able to look in every so often. Vanamonde (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK the article now has a bit more structure which I hope will be conducive to readability and further improvement. There is more sourced content, especially on some key issues. Also I threw up a page on the 1923 book Crystallizing Public Opinion, where some more eyeballs would be most welcome.
 * Vanamonde thanks for checking in. I know you have made great contributions over the years on articles related to Guatemala, so I hope you will review especially the section on the United Fruit Company.
 * Next steps for anyone who wants to jump in: more thorough rewriting (and re-researching) of the "Techniques" section and many of the "campaigns"; rewriting of the lede. cheers, groupuscule (talk) 03:58, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Bernays, Lippmann, Caesar, Gregory XV
Given the importance of this man, his influence and his relevance to power establishment activities and to the quality of life, survival or demise of the species, this bio can be expanded substantially. In this regard, Wikipedia's propaganda page simply needs to be cited (sorry to be lazy).

Re the 20th Century comment and propaganda history: Caesar famously engaged in propaganda: the Gallic Wars is cited as example. Re Loyola: The origin of the word "propaganda" in its prior, proselitizing, nuanced application, was the "Sacred Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith" (Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide) established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV to foster the spread of Catholicism, which was encountering competition from English/Dutch colonial administrations. Bottom line, however, is that the psychoscience of Freudian "public relations," is very much a 20th Century phenomenon -- as claimed. Lippmann, Bernays, Lee, modern Madison Avenuists and Rovian politicos did and do their homework.

Walter Lippmann, Bernays' (unacknowledged) precursor, bears additional mention in this bio and on his own page. Lippmann famously (but this bizarrely missing from his bio page; the Editors of this and that page should monitor changes to ensure that interested parties are thwarted from deleting pertinent factual content unfavorable to the industry) co-orchestrated Woodrow Wilson's miraculous conversion in under one year from the sloganeer who "kept us out of war" to the foaming monger who (along with the British) used "public relations" to whip the American (and British) public into a frenzy against the savage Hun (for contemporary example: Einstein, Ernst, Planck and Schweitzer; Remarque's "All Quiet on the Western Front" and Owen's "Dulce et Decorum Est" would not, like Scott-Heron's' revolution, "be televised"). On the subject of the origins of PR: Craig Nelson in his eponymous biography of Thomas Paine, states that after the American Revolution, Britain engaged in a coordinated disinformation (synonym for a genre of PR) campaign (an appropriately military word) to ensure that British subjects didn't get any ideas about deposing their unelected monarch. Undoubtedly, could they have, they would've hired... Bernays.

Grammatical note: Bernays' is correct possessive; let's jettison the extra s.

Re what he really thought: Lippmann and Bernays were avowed elitists who did indeed think that "we" are stupid and need to be manipulated by self-appointed superior beings.

24.44.137.5 (talk) 06:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

someone just posted this question under the life and influences section
IT IS TRUE, ANNA is FREUDs daughter. "[I think that is not true ... Anna was Freud's daughter ... will somebody in the know please sort that out]"

it was not me Slarson 19:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, at first I linked to Anna Freud but that says she was born after Bernays. So I took out that part. Canuckle 19:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

1891-1995-1998. Tye, Larry. The Father of Spin: Edward L. Bernays and the Birth of Public Relations. New York: Crown Publishers, 1998. 306 pages. This is the first full-scale biography of Edward Bernays (1891-1995), who was Sigmund Freud's nephew, and who considered himself "the father of public relations." It is based on 800 boxes of documents that Bernays left to the Library of Congress, more than 100 interviews with his friends and associates, his 849-page autobiography published in 1965, and his numerous articles and speeches. With so much material, one might have hoped that Larry Tye, a journalist with the Boston Globe, could get behind Bernays' shameless self-promotion and find something insightful. But it never quite happens, because Bernays was a shallow and uninspiring person.

For American Tobacco, Bernays got women to start smoking, even while suspecting that smoking was dangerous. For United Fruit, he whipped U.S. newspapers into a frenzy so that the CIA could engineer its 1954 coup in Guatemala. A 1923 book written by Bernays was used by Goebbels, but Bernays shrugged it off. He did propaganda for South Vietnam in 1961, and then by 1970, after public opinion had changed, he wanted to help the peace movement. Bernays was the mass-media's version of situation ethics, and an excellent symbol of what's wrong with contemporary American culture. With Bernays there is no consistency, no character, no integrity, no conscience, no bravery, no truth -- nothing but spinning your way to fame and fortune. ISBN 0-517-70435-8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.215.75.17 (talk) 04:39, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

older comments
But the mass population is malleable- there is no one in the world that has not been affected by advertising and propaganda! And look at how people become sheep due to a mass opinion or order! William Golding illustrated this brilliantly in 'Lord Of The Flies' and there are many other examples of this- the Holocaust (6 million Jews?!), a number I can't even comprehend, sucide bombers, Waco, supermodels (size 0 mentality), etc. the list is endless! I'm not sure Bernays thinks we are stupid- just that our sub conscious is very malleable as we can't control it. But he did change the world and not for better. Rows98 11:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Given that Bernays was quite obviously an unprincipled scumbag, I find the article quite biased towards being favourable to him. His lack of any conscience about whether Arbenz was a legitimate democratically elected leader of Guatemala speaks volumes about his obvious amorality. Before you reply with attacks, you may wish to consider that Bernays stated - in the very words of his own daughter - that all mankind was basically stupid. He thought that you, you reading this, for all your college education or otherwise, were basically a malleable piece of rubbish, and he didn't give a damn whether you were happy with that or not. May he and his kind rot in hell.


 * Bernays was filth of the worst kind. I agree. May he rot in hell, were there such a thing.--Kelt65 (talk) 18:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You're also talking about a man who did extensive pro-bono work for the NAACP back in the 1920s--there's an award named after him thanks to his work. He also campaigned extensivly for anti-smoking forces in the 60s--a stance which he ironically lay the groundwork to discredit back in the 30s when he was employed by Lucky Strikes. He was a mixed bag: in Propaganda, he clearly states that conversation between an advertiser and potential consumer must be honest and direct, yet in his memoir he joyfully recounts flat out lying to the press. More than anything, he had a flair for showmanship and bought his own hype, for good or ill.

Edwards L. Bernys and Ignatius De Loyola ?

Does there exists a link between the work af Bernays, the work of Ignatius De Loyola and to the Nazi propaganda ? If so, it is facinating to know, that public relation can be traced many years back in time to the Reformation and Anti-Reformation in Europe.

Where can the principles of propaganda developed by Ignatius De Loyola be found ?

Please give links to references.

If it can be proven that there is a link, I think this must be included as a separate section.

KFL 18th February 2006

Loyola was way before this time, I believe.

-

I've found out what the L stands for. Its Louis, but Bernays refused to use it in his name. He was reported to "have not liked to talk about it" Longevitymonger

While Wikipedia editors might not welcome or agree to a section called Bernays was quite obviously an unprincipled scumbag, can they at least reflect on the negative nature of his ideas? For is it not correct that this article is biased and overly-favourable towards someone many consider a Nazi? 78.147.84.52 (talk) 21:48, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

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