Talk:Efkan Ala

Membership of the AKP
Is there any evidence that he is a member of the Justice and Development Party (Turkey) (AKP)? If yes, pls add ref, otherwise the related entry in the infobox has to be removed. --CeeGee 10:28, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It appears that he is not a member of the party, and not even a MP, so I've removed the party entry from the infobox. Ithinkicahn (talk) 21:26, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

17 December Allegations
Please note that any pov forged ahead on the above date is merely an allegation. Libel is a crime in journalism and any libelous comments must be removed as any accused person reserves the right to file a court complaint on such misleading articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien sojourner (talk • contribs) 16:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You've deleted referenced content. What was libellous? Please be specific.   Ruby   Murray  16:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It's absolutely true that libel needs to be removed; and that controversial material about living persons must be handled with care. Would you please specify what you belive is libel/problematic in the current version that needs to be removed? Regards, Iselilja (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Please also read No legal threats: you appear to be threatening Wikipedia with legal action.  Ruby   Murray  16:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I am in no position to threat with legal action anyone here let alone Wikipedia, but the person whose public image is being tarnished would do so. It is nothing but a friendly reminder what actions a libelous article would bring about.Alien sojourner (talk) 16:31, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

The allegations were merely a move to impact the presidential elections in 2014. There is evidence of the infiltrations pointed out by a now jailed police chief, Hanefi Avci, Please see if you speak Turkish: Mr. Avci wrote a book on the infiltration of Gulen's people into the law enforcement and the judiciary in 2010 and for that reason he was jailed. Does this sound right if a person is jailed for writing a book? Let alone there are many journalists were jailed by the same religious group of people. Please do research on this topic, unbiased in order to determine whether there are any doubt on this matter.Alien sojourner (talk) 16:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, please point out exactly which words in the article that you believe to be libellous.  Ruby   Murray  16:37, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I will guess you are referring to statements about Muammer Güler and his son? I changed the article slightly, to say his son was subject of a corruption investigation, instead of scandal. Is that OK? Since this article is about Efkan Ala and not Güler, it may not be needed to include the reason that Güler stepped down. You also have the possibility to bring your concern to the Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 16:40, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

thank you Iselija, I would actually call it "corruption allegations" to be politically correct. The referenced article also must be changed accordingly to reflect an unbiased pov. The article also should reflect the claims of the plaintiff, for instance, two sacks of so-called evidence were presented to a judge and the judge ordered arrest of the accused without even breaking the seal of the evidence. This violates every law in the book. Thank you. Alien sojourner (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

No I am not referring to it, I haven't read any statement by Mr. Guler or his son. However, considering the presidential elections are due in 2014, and these allegations were "evidenced" about 8 months before the police raid on 17 December, raises suspicions that the prosecutors decided to forge ahead with the case and no record of the filing was done in order to be a legit move. The prosecutors may have involved in a retribution for their religious leader, Mr. Gulen accused the Prime Minister being "a Pharaoh." Recently Mr. Gulen did not deny his political shift supporting the opposition in an article published by WSJ. As an ordinary citizen I would wonder why the prosecutors waited 8 months before taking any action. It also raises the questions whether the evidence of such corruption were concealed by the investigators, which is in violation of the law in any country. under the light of these, any unfounded references to the media are merely allegations and not a verdict of a court of law, therefore an insult to the intelligence of us as people. also raises questions whether the evidence was planted or fabricated by illegal wiretapping. thank you. Alien sojourner (talk) 17:32, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I removed the section mentioning the so-called corruption investigation because it has nothing to do with Mr. Ala's bio. Please do not revert.Alien sojourner (talk) 06:43, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Please refrain from blanking and removing sourced content, as well as edit warring. All allegations you seem to be making are not backed by any conclusive proof, while the information you are removing is well-sourced and part of an official criminal investigation. This is also a public figure, so your claims of removing sourced content for "libel" (and previously adding POV statements like "fascist" to the article subject's opposition party) hold little water. The mention of the corruption investigation also puts no blame on the article subject; it mentions the circumstances of his placement into the Minister of the Interior position. So no libel is being committed here. Ithinkicahn (talk) 07:47, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Unfounded corruption allegations are not and must not be part of a bio of a living person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien sojourner (talk • contribs) 07:53, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "Unfounded" is your personal opinion. The allegations have been made by a prosecutor as part of a criminal investigation. Don't confuse your personal opinions with Wikipedia-quality encyclopedic content. Personal attacks are also unwelcome. Ithinkicahn (talk) 07:56, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I truly do question whether we have "encyclopedia quality" content here when articles were written by editors who admire both the hippy movement and also fascist leaders like Dictator Kamal. Because Kamal would have gassed hippies like Hitler if he met them. they just don't go together. Please do not interpret this as a personal attack but only questioning credibility of the author who seems to be indoctrinated under the Turkish educational system.

This note is rather for the third parties here and I invite them to search for "Dictator Kemal" in Time magazine archives.

In another article about "Secularism in Turkey" it is mentioned that Progressive Republican Party was a fundamentalist islamist party. As a result of that farcical investigation Javid Bei (Cavid Bey) was also execute among other liberals. We know that Javid Bei was from a Jewish descent and could not be a fundamentalist and I ask this question: Do you really trust the opinion of editors like the above contributor regarding their political affiliation?

I do not like fiction nor the indoctrination of the so-called secular Turkish educational system. I invite you to read a book called "Yanlış Cumhuriyet" (eng: Faulty Republic) by Sevan Nişanyan, a writer of Armenian descent who was jailed recenly for "illegal construction" in the village of Şirince outside Ephesus. Apparently the Turkish Justice could not find any means to prosecute him under the pretext of his God-given freedom of expression but found a way to punish him writing that book. Alien sojourner (talk) 19:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Article talk pages on Wikipedia aren't a forum for debate about the article's subject. They're for discussing ways to improve the artcle. Please propose a change you'd like to see, and let's discuss your proposal.  Ruby   Murray  23:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I would also advise him against removing the warnings he received for vandalism to this page and various other offenses in the past couple days from his talk page, which he seems to have done. Ithinkicahn (talk) 06:10, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No, we're perfectly entitled to remove other editor's posts from our own talk pages. Please see WP:OWNTALK. Can we please get back to the subject of improving the article?  Ruby   Murray  07:05, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

If you believe in liberal point of view, pluralism, and not in favor of any kind of fascism like kamalism, indoctrination, opinionated ideologies, etc, I will be happy to contribute to the content, not particularly this subject but in general. However, it was purposeful on my part to point out certain facts in a ranting and for the brashness of my tone I apologize. But certain people would not understand that it is not politically correct to impose a certain old fashioned (fascist) ways on to people here. if you want to do so, there is eksisozluk in Turkish for that kind of indoctrinated POV. I thought Wikipedia was about being liberal and any subject I see here edited by certain people reflect their own ostrich point of view not a universal POV. Alien sojourner (talk) 07:34, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I understand that it's a subject that raises passionate opinions - there are lots of articles like that on Wikipedia. So can you please propose what changes you'd like to see made? Just write down the wording you think should be used. Ruby   Murray  08:13, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

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