Talk:Ein Avdat/GA1

GA Review
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 * Starting GA review today.Pyrotec (talk) 12:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Initial GA review
Quite a good, readable, wide-ranging article with some good illustrations. However I'm slightly confused by a number of relatively minor points that need to be addressed before GA can be formally considered.

The WP:lead states, "The flourishing environment is caused by the water of numerous springs that begins at the southern opening of the canyon, and descends into deep pools in series of waterfalls." which tends to suggest that the Northern end is deeper (below the level of) the Southern end.

Whereas, the Springs' section says: Located near the northern entrance of the national park there is a spring called Ein Mor. The spring was named after the spice of Myrrh, Mor (Hebrew: מור‎) being Hebrew for myrrh. The neighbouring city of Avdat saw the travels of many camels carrying myrrh northward, due to the city being part of the ancient Incence Route, and thus giving the spring its name.[7][8] Further south of Ein Mor is a 15 meter high waterfall that descends into a deep pool of water that is 8 meters deep, very cold and recently forbidden to swim in. The spring is called Ein Avdat and should not be confused with the canyon itself. The southernmost spring in the canyon is Ein Ma'arif.[3][8] It forms a chain of waterfalls and pools with one waterfall being 40 meters (131 ft) high.[9] Nearby there are remains of a Byzantine fortress which controlled the descent to the spring and the agricultural land of the surroundings.[9][5]

This tends to suggest or imply the opposite.

So: Pyrotec (talk) 20:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is the order of the WP:Lead the reverse of the order of the Springs?
 * Presumably the 15 meter high waterfall is fed by the Ein Avdat spring (it is implied but is not definitely stated)?
 * Why was swiming recently banned?
 * Which is deepest, North or South?
 * Is the string water of drinkable quality (for humans)? The article mentions that the salinity as well as the flow changes through the year; and it mentions salt-tolerant trees in both the Lead and the Fauna and Flora section.
 * Hi, I will try to adress the Issues.
 * I can first tell you that all sources say that the Northern end is below the level of the Southern end. So I will change the order in the Springs section.
 * This source says it is forbidden to swim because it would disturb the creatures that live there. So I will add that.
 * This source says it is forbidden to drink the water but doesn't say it isn't drinkable. Alot of source says it is drinkable for animals but doesn't mention if it is for humans. I'll try to find that out.
 * Is it a problem to mention salt-tolerant trees in both the Lead and the Fauna and Flora section?
 * It's not a problem. The function of the lead is defined here: WP:lead, i.e. its both an introduction and a summary.Pyrotec (talk) 19:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This source says that; "Ein Avdat emerges at the base of the 50 foot (15 m) waterfall." I don't know really how to interpret it, but as I see it the waterfall is part of the spring itself, or Ein Avdat is fed by the waterfall, but I will look into it.


 * What do you think of it all? --Fipplet (talk) 12:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It will pass at GA, its a good article. I just have to ask these questions to satisfy myself that the article is compliant.Pyrotec (talk) 19:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, there, I have changed the order of the springs in the springs section and added the reason why swimming is prohibited as well, so I hope that is no longer an issue. I've mentioned that drinking the water of the springs is prohibited but I haven't found a source that says anything about the waters drinking quality. In this source there is a map if you hover the mouse over "Walking tours map", it appears that the Ein Avdat spring is fed by the waterfall, that is in turn fed by Ein Ma'arif, but on this one i'll wait for your reply if there is a need for a change in the article.
 * Do you think there is more work to do before GA can be formally considered? Thank you for your help. --Fipplet (talk) 20:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I will do the GA review tonight. Is it possible to include any information about elevation, e.g. the southern (or northern) entrance is at 500 m (I've no idea whether this is right) above sea level and the highest or deepest point is +20 m; or even the nearby town of Avdat is at 500 m?Pyrotec (talk) 12:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * According to this map the canyon is at 400 m while above the canyon it is 500 m, but I don't know how specific that is. So I'll try to find out more about the elevation. --Fipplet (talk) 15:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I found this source that says that the "avdat farm" is located at 600 m. The farm is located near Sde Boker, but I don't think that is useful information right now. However, I will add that the southern entrance is located at about 500m while the northern is at about 400m, just as the map I posted says.Fipplet (talk) 19:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

GA review
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * B. MoS compliance:
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * B. Focused:
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * Pass or Fail:

Congratulations on the article, I'm awarding GA-status.Pyrotec (talk) 20:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That makes me very happy! Thank you for all your help! Fipplet (talk) 20:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)