Talk:El Paso, Texas/Archive 1

Initial text
How does this in the fourth paragraph -- "El Paso is a solid base of support for the Democratic Party, which further indicates the generally low standard of hygene and morality within the city." -- NOT violate Wikipedia's NPOV policy?

Wow. As ridiculous as that is, it IS funny. RickK 01:16, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

LOLOL Nice little paragraph that they put in there =)

The sad part is, the above statement is true. The standard of hygene and morality are low, and they get lower the closer you get to the boarder. Additionally, the city's hispanic population does vote almost exclusivly for the democratic party. The only untrue thing about the above statement is the part about further indication. By the way, that big unpopulated area in the upper right hand corner of the satalite photo is part of Fort Bliss.
 * Your statement is as prejudiced as the one above. Politics and ethnicity have nothing to do with hygiene (notice that this hispanic spelled hygiene correctly) and morality.
 * It ain't my fault I'm spellogically challenged, some people just have that gift, and I'm not one of them. You are right, politics has nothing to do hygene; niether does ethnicity. But ethnicity does play a role in politics: most minorities in the US vote democratic. And hygene here is low; however, in most cases it is not from choice but from chance. Since so many people live at or below the poverty level (and in some cases, below the legal radar as well) the standard of hygyne does tend to diminish as one gets closer to the border. In either case, you will note that this statement does not appear in the article.
 * The point is that there's no causality between the city's morality/hygiene and its liberal leanings. If you're gonna say something like that, at least blame it on something plausible, like a crappy school system, or the lithium in the tap water.  Jeez.  That was funny, though, but encyclopediae aren't really supposed to make you laugh... Andrew 04:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Confusion with South Texas History
The "Plan de San Diego" and the violence between Texas Rangers and Mexican American and Mexican residents mainly took place in far south Texas. El Paso witnessed disturbances such as the "Bath Riots," but it was not front and center in the South Texas events. Pancho Villa's Columbus raid was a far more immediate event.

Also, there are numerous biased and unusual references to "Americans" (meaning Anglo-American or non-Hispanic) or "Texan descent." Other than Caddo Indians, who is exactly of "Texan descent." Even most of the white settlers in El Paso were from elsewhere; such as the Stephenson and Magoffin clans from Kentucky, and the post 1861 wave from the northeast, and later settlers who arrived by way of New Mexico and Arizona - often from the Midwest. Much of this seems to be unsubstantiated, as opposed to work that cites Timmons, Sonnichsen, Romo, et al. 24.167.52.195 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 06:55, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

This article is full of unsubstantiated statements. At no point during the Mexican Revolution did a massacre of Anglo-Americans take place in El Paso. In South Texas (700-800 miles away) the "Plan de San Diego" involved a plot to attack Anglo-Americans; its discovery in 1915 led to reprisals and counterattacks between Texas Rangers and "sediciosos." These events did not directly involve El Paso, and at most, created general tensions in the area. However, El Paso is NOT Laredo, or Brownsville, or McAllen. It has a separate history. 24.167.52.195 (talk)

Problems with Demography Section
"Although historically a city of whites overwhelmingly of American ancestry, the last decades of the 20th century saw the city demographics change dramatically." Who is of American ancestry, apart from Native Americans? "Whites" are of European, West Asian, and North African ancestry.

" El Paso's indigenous white American population has shrunk to 17.1% of the population." El Paso's only indigenous population are the Manso and Suma Indians.

Also, Hispanics include many people who are - at least under United States Census classification and other legal indicators, if not everyday language, "white," so that statement is incomplete. Also, the very definition of "Hispanic" (or its existence as a distinct ethnic catgory) has changed repeatedly since the nineteenth century, making it very difficult to track these demographic changes. In 1940 to 1970, many El Paso Hispanics would have been counted simply as "whites" - no Hispanic category existed. Furthermore, "shrunk" implies that the total white (non-Hispanic) population has diminished considerably, when in fact this demographic shift has been due to growth in the Hispanic population.

" El Paso is one of the least diverse and most Hispanic city in the United States."

There are many municipalities that are well over 90% within one ethnic or racial category or another in the United States. Even if one asserted that El Paso was one of the least diverse large cities, one would have to qualify that it is not "diverse" in terms of U.S. Census categorizations of ethnicity. To say "least diverse" in general is a very subjective statement - in terms of religion, income, and other factors, El Paso might be highly diverse.

69.171.160.187 (talk)


 * I just changed it.

"El Paso's indigenous white American population has shrunk to 17.1% of the population." --> "Non-Hispanic Whites make up 17.1% of the population"

"Although historically a city of whites overwhelmingly of American ancestry, the last decades of the 20th century saw the city demographics change dramatically." Has already been changed to something that more accurately reflects historical demographics (this sentence seems to ignore the fact that El Paso was a majority Hispanic city in 1914 and even a part of Mexico before the Mexican-American War). saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 01:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

" El Paso is one of the least diverse and most Hispanic city in the United States." Removed. saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 01:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

How is Crime Rate in El Paso Impacted by the Juarez Drug War?
Better to address it in the article rather than ignore it. Everyone knows it's an issue.

How had El Paso been impacted by the Juarez drug violence? Police measures? Crime Satistics?

66.227.84.101 (talk) 02:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC) The fact of the matter is that El Paso is seldom affected with the violence in Juarez. El Paso is still the 3rd safest city in the country. If anything the violence in Juarez has had a positive impact with most Juarez residents moving across the border. The news has no idea what they are talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smguy101 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Kennedy Impact
Removed paragraph that doesn't seem to have anything to do with El Paso:

''A presidential visit to the state of Texas was first suggested to President John F. Kennedy by his Vice President, Lyndon Baines Johnson and Texas Governor John Bowen Connally, Sr. while all three men were together in a meeting on June 6, 1963, less than six months before the Kennedy assassination in Dallas, Texas. President Kennedy decided to embark on the November 1963 trip with three basic goals in mind: the president wanted to help raise more Democratic Party presidential campaign fund contributions; he wanted to begin his quest for re-election in November, 1964; and, because the Kennedy-Johnson ticket had barely won Texas in 1960 President Kennedy wanted to help mend political fences among several leading Texas Democratic party members who appeared to be fighting politically amongst themselves, which included Johnson/Connally fighting with Texas Senator Ralph Yarborough.''

This should be resubmitted. President Kennedy did come to El Paso and while here discussed plans for that fateful Dallas trip. See this page for information about the Chamizal National Memorial, which was the reason he came to El Paso in the first place. http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/hisnps/NPSHistory/parkdate.htm "August 29 1963: The Chamizal Treaty resolved a 99-year dispute over the boundary between the U.S. and Mexico in the El Paso?Juarez Valley. Chamizal National Memorial in El Paso, TX, commemorates the peaceful settlement." This memorial is the only National Park in the area. Evidently what is missing above is information about the Chamizal Treaty in general, and Kennedy's dedication and trip. This can then segue the above deleted paragraph.

Elpgrrrl 03:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * This a general overview of the treaty: In the 1960's(?) Mexice began complaining that the Rio Grande had shifted south, an thereby increasing the land mass of El Paso while simulataniously decreasing the landmass of Juarez. Seeking to resolve the problem the U.S. and Mexico reached an agreement whereby 100 acres of land that once belonged to mexico would be returned, and the Rio Grande's boundry between the cities set with concrete so as to prevent this problem in the future. The land returned to Mexico eventually became the Chamizal National Memerial. Thats a rough sketch of the information, but I'm not sure that all the information is acurate, so it needs to be checked before its placed in the article. TomStar81 06:05, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

El Paso as part of the South
What is the opinion on El Paso being part of the South? There is some debate on this issue on the Southern United States discussion page. Some of the debate is shown here: ...El Paso is both Hispanic and Western. But I also believe that it's Southern. Early pioneers to El Paso were Southerners moving there from North and East Texas, Alabama, and Georgia. The following was taken from the Handbook of Texas Online:

"During the Civil War most of the El Paso pioneers were overwhelmingly sympathetic to the South. Although Confederate forces occupied Fort Bliss in 1861, the tide began to turn in favor of the Union cause the following year, and in August the Stars and Stripes was raised once again over Fort Bliss. The local Southern sympathizers eventually received presidential pardons, but some, such as Simeon Hart, battled for years before they recovered their properties." In addition, the area was part of the Confederate States of America. The region of Texas bordering Mexico in far South Texas is undisputedly Southern, but it is Hispanic as well. There is an overlapping of cultures in Texas, but that isn't a reason one of those cultures can't be Southern...Thanks. Please give input on this subject. It would be greatly appreciated. Stallions2010 07:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think since El Paso is part of Texas, and Texas is part of the South, we are automatically the South. Smguy101 01:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

There seem to be a number of valid opinions with a lot of supporting evidence on this subject, so I think it deserves to be a sub-heading under History explaining El Paso politics and popular opinion before and during the period of the Civil War.Hondo 19:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with your view on El Paso having a unique Southern character. We are part of Texas, a southern state & we subscribe to Texas law & our society is full of southern ways. Simply stated, (and taken from the southern literature Wiki page, El Paso culture includes the "Characteristics of Southern literature include a focus on a common Southern history, the significance of family, a sense of community and one’s role within it, the region's dominant religion (Christianity, See Protestantism) and the burdens/rewards religion often brings, issues of racial tension, land and the promise it brings, a sense of social class, and the use of the Southern dialect."

Even during the war between the states, El Paso(as was in colonial & old Mexico days) the gateway to the territory of New Mexico.

I am from Dallas but I travel to El Paso for business frequently. While El Paso has many of the best characteristics of Southern cities, (charm, gracious, courteous people, emphasis on family and roots), I just dont feel like I am in a Southern town when I visit. Maybe it is the arid landscape or the predominance of hispanic culture, (which I love)that sets El Paso apart. I just cant put my finger on it, but speaking as someone who is proud to be from the South, I dont feel like I am in the South in El Paso. Having said that, I wouldnt change a thing about the place. I really like it there.


 * It's much more a part of the west than of the south, culturally, demographically, politically maybe; maybe it's because it's further west than Albuquerque and Denver, and half way between Pasadena CA and Pasadena TX. And it's not humid, as you note. Dicklyon 04:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Culturally, El Paso is part of New Mexico (since 1598). For example, the first bridge to Juarez was built with wood from Santa Fe about 250 years ago.  People do not speak with the Texas Twang, but have more of a Western accent. I count Marfa and points east  before the Southern drawl is noticeable. This cultural difference may exist in part because of the influence of the military population in El Paso, who have lived all over the world, and of course from the predominant Mexican-American population. --Ancheta Wis 01:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Just wondering...whatever happened to "Southwest"? This regional label seems to fit, both geographically and culturally, and makes much better sense to me than trying to shoehorn cities like El Paso, San Antonio and Amarillo into the same "Southern" category as Atlanta, Nashville and Richmond. Methychroma (talk) 06:34, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE ..the real question is IS TEXAS REALLY SOUTHERN? or is it really southwestern ... The Texas Twang is not Southern really, it is western. with a southern influence. TEXAS in the Confederacy was mostly east of the Brazos and the reason El Paso went Union is because of its westerly position. The Confederate hold outs were near the Gulf of Mexico. When will there be a western uprising and the GRAND STATE OF WEST TEXAS be incorporated? If Texas retains the right to withdraw from the Union why cann't a portion of the state form a new one? All that natural gas and oil; all the farm lands and cattle country OZONA TO EL PASO the PAN HANDLE TO BIG BENDCarmeldesigner 22:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

East Texas is definitely more 'Southern' in the cultural sense. West Texas and a lot of Central Texas are really more culturally 'Western' than Southern. Although there is no clear-cut line between the two. And to confuse the whole thing even more, both 'Southern' and 'Western' regions share an underlying flavor that is uniquely Texan.

66.227.84.101 (talk) 02:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

'Southwestern' or any other regional separator in the US refers more to the topology of the land, the mean temperature, and culture instead of accents, descendants or any official, whether real or imaginary state boundary. If Austin, Texas, with it's native 'prickly-pear' cactus, non-coastal palm trees, and non-humid sub-tropical climate is considered to be in and within 10 miles of the defining line of the Southwest, than I would gather that El Paso, being 529 miles west of the Eastern edge of the Southwest, would definitely be THE SOUTHWEST. The Latino/German/Southern culture, topology, and location seals it. Where people originally came from (which is not reflective of a broad view because the Latino and Spanish did not come from any part of the South) has nothing to do with making the region of their settlement part of where they come from. An example of this would be the large amount of Southerners from Tennessee, Virginia and Kentucky that settled in North-Central Missouri. The 17 county area is known as "Little Dixie", nevertheless, the northern half of Missouri is in the Midwest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.20.120.197 (talk) 18:58, 17 April 2010 (UTC) 71.20.120.197 (talk) 18:59, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Tigua
How come there is no mention of the Tiguas in Ysleta which is part of El Paso now.

Yes, the Tigua Pueblo del Sur Reservation lies within El Paso County and they do maintain a separate identity from the rest of the county and the city. But, in light of the issues with Ambramoff and Scanlon, something should pinpoint where this Native Tribe is located with a link back to El Paso, Texas, Ambramoff, Scanlon, and anything else that fits including Tribal Gaming. Elpgrrrl 03:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The Tiguas keep to themselves, as such not a lot is known about them. If it makes you feel better, I'll see what i can dig up on thier history and place it into the article.

Mabey we could add a line or two about how the Tiguas were defrauded by Abramoff and lost Speaking Rock casino.

Out of repsect to the Tigua, I think we need to expand (& mention) also on the Tigua tribe. Lets not forget though their relatives to the north the Isleta Pueblo.

Expansion
I removed this trivia statement from the main article:

''* Many Mexicans and Anglos intermarried. Many of populations are of Spanish, German and Mexican descendents.''

While I believe this to be generally true, it's a very broad statement and could use specifics and at the very least cite a reference or two before being returned as part of the Culture section.Hondo 16:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Mt. Cristo Rey
Maybe there should be a link? Mt. Christo Rey is located between New Mexico and Mexico, but very near to El Paso. see: http://www.celebrationofourmountains.org/ http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php3?tip_AttractionNo==3485 Elpgrrrl 03:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

There is a white cone about a third to a half of the way up Mt. Cristo Rey that symbolizes the exact spot where the Texas, Mexico, and New Mexico borders meet.

while you are at it white sands should be added to nearby sites of interest section 69.92.38.180 09:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC) gowithflo

"the exact spot where the Texas, Mexico, and New Mexico borders meet" - By looking at several different maps, that spot appears to be in the middle or on one one side of the river, not on Mt. Cristo Rey - James —Preceding unsigned comment added by  216.243.212.98  (talk • contribs)  15:50, 1 December 2009

Prominant Architecture
I would like to include a section devoted to the prominant architecture, and buildings in El Paso. Structures such as the Albert Bacon Fall 1907 mansion located at 1725 Arizona, the cortez building located at 310 North Mesa Street, and the Roberts-Banner Building located at 215 North Mesa Street just to neame a handful. The Banner Building alone is important because it is the fourth concrete building by Henry C. Trost to anchor the Plaza is a magnificent “U” shaped concrete structure with wonderful detailing. Any suggestions, or help would be appreciated. Somnabot 06:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget Louis Daeuble architect of the main downtown branch of the ElPaso Public Library, the Convention Center and Other notable buildings. Carmeldesigner 22:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The Star on the Mountain
An explanation of the Star would be an excellent addition if someone can provide it. It is referenced once in the article with Eddie Guerrero. Hondo 15:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * ...And now it's gone, because Eddie's part of the Famous El Pasoans List.Hondo 19:36, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * El Paso can thank Jack Maxon for his support. Carmeldesigner 22:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The star is not gone its just now privately funded. People have to pay to have it turned on {..::M@®©™ ::..} (talk) 03:47, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The history for the stra could be found at El Paso's local electric company or even at Ft. Bliss. The star is in support of the troops.  When all of Ft. Bliss's soldiers ahve returned from overseas, the star will no longer be lit up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.117.167.82 (talk) 04:46, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm... the star has been a prominent feature of The Sun City for decades, so I'm surprised there isn't a section (a picture of it is even featured on the infobox). I will work on something soon. :) -P shadoh (talk) 16:03, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

History
The Apache Wars and subsequent Comanche Wars left northern Mexico, then including present day New Mexico, Texas, Cochiulla, in a state of perpetual instability.

In the above sentence, Cochiulla should be Coahuila. Cadjine (talk) 13:50, 5 August 2010 (UTC) cadjine

Done. Ratemonth (talk) 14:09, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Biggs Air Force Base
Anybody in E.P. ever heard of it?--Buckboard 14:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Back in the day that United States Army Air Force operated out at the biggs airfield. After WWII the US created the independent US air force, which assumed command of biggs army airfield, thus making it Biggs Air Force Base. I am not familiar with the curcumstances surrounding the armys reacquistion of the facility; however I do know that they regained control of the airfield, thus changing its desigantion from an independent AFB to an army airfield. TomStar81 09:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have heard of Biggs AAF being Biggs AFB back in the day. I think when the Government opened Holloman AFB 80 miles North in Alamogordo, they decided to give Biggs AFB to Ft. Bliss. Smguy101 02:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, Biggs AAF was given to Ft. Bliss...it has actually expanded and is where a very large portion of Ft. Bliss's population is located. I believe by the end of 2011 they are sadi to have 25,000 more troops stationed at Ft. Bliss and to be housed on Biggs.  They still have one flight area that is used for deployment flights but other than that, it is mostly Army.  In the other sections on El Paso I read a lot about El Paso being mostly hispanic.  Ft. Bliss is where the bulk of El Paso's non-hispanic popluation comes from.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.117.167.82 (talk) 04:36, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Famous El Pasoans to be added?
Note, need to add these bands: At the Drive-In Iron Butterfly The Mars Volta Sparta And also the actress: Lupe Ontiveros http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0648913 Elpgrrrl 04:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC) (placed here by Maltmomma  (chat)  05:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC))

Could we merge them and the actual List of famous people from El Paso, Texas into the main article? I noticed a couple of these bands are already on that list.Hondo 16:14, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes we need perhaps add a "Notable People" section. Very important section in my opinion. Gene Roddenberry, Sam Donaldson, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.96.86 (talk) 22:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The list already has its own page. That doesn't need to be duplicated here. This article is already very long. Also, you have not given a reason why it would be a very important section. Ratemonth (talk) 23:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Crime in El Paso
Someone should put a section about El Paso being one of the safest cities in the United States. Smguy101 21:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added the tidbit above with the appropriate citation, but more crime statistics would be appreciated if available. Hondo 14:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I was just about to ask where the crime information was. --AW 03:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

History of Hispanic vs. Anglo Population Numbers
Was the city always ethnic-Mexican majority, or has it been "re-Mexicanized" in the post-WW2 era?

Was there official segregation, denial of voting rights to an ethnic-Mexican minority/majority?

Should the possible return to ethnic-Mexican majority in recent times be billed with the same section-headline prominence as the original transfer away from Mexico -- "Re-Mexicanization in the Post-War Period"?

Could we get a chart of rising and falling "Anglo" vs. Hispanic population? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.6.251.38 (talk) 08:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

The city was certainly more "Anglo" from 1940-1980 (between the World War II military influx and the advent of current immigration levels), though I think the article exaggerates these numbers. Keep in mind the census has shifted its racial and ethnic classifications over time, and historically, people of Mexican descent were not differentiated from "whites" until 1980. The 1930 census was an exception. It would be impossible to chart the Hispanic population over a long period of time, as the category of Hispanic did not exist in the census before 1980.

I also think terming El Paso as not "diverse" is a bit of a misstatement - Hispanics are a fairly diverse category in terms of class, language, religion, and self-identification. 69.171.160.187 (talk)

Removed transportation section
The reason for modifying the transportation section so heavily is a simple one. The El Paso page is very long. I Was browsing the Los Angeles page and I noticed that to keep the main article short, the transportation of the city was briefly described on the main article and was discussed in greater detail in a separate page.


 * OK, thanks for cooperating, finally. I trust you'll be using edit summaries and talk pages in the future.


 * For now, the appropriate move is probably a quick poll: who supports or opposes the idea of moving the information in the Transportation section to a new article Transportation in El Paso?


 * Oppose – the article is not so long that it needs this split. Dicklyon 20:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Support – This article is very long. We should follow the example of the larger cities' pages (Pianofortestudent112 21:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC))


 * Oppose -- The Article isn't as long. I think we should wait until the article get ridiculously long and put the History of El Paso into a separate article first. Smguy101 15:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC))


 * Oppose - First of all, the article is getting larger, and pretty close to where it probably should be split. It's ~55k now. Remember that this guideline isn't for people who have 3 computer monitors or the latest in Internet browsers, but to ensure compatibility no matter how you access Wikipedia, including mobile devices. I oppose because I don't think the Transportation section is enough to alleviate the problem. We should discuss summarizing and splitting several sections. Unfortunately the article is written with several sections, none of which are too huge. Wikidan829 22:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The History Section is a little long, maybe we should put that in a separate article (Smguy101 04:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC))

Skyline Image
The reason why I changed the main skyline image was because the previous image did not show the El Paso County Courthouse, which is a part of the city skyline. If this image is not liked, i will try and find another one. (Pianofortestudent112 20:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC))
 * I like the new picture, but is it possible to make it a little bigger? And this picture does not really show the County Courthouse. My picture shows most of the main skyline (the El Paso skyline image in the article) (Smguy101 21:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC))
 * Thanks! i will try and make it bigger. I like your skyline picture too. The problem is is that it shows a lot of the third world (mexico).
 * Why is that a problem? That's what you see when you look at El Paso from where you can see it. Dicklyon 22:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah that is true, El paso wouldn't be as big if Juarez wasn't across our sad excuse of a river lol (Smguy101 04:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC))

A great addition wou;d be a photo taken from Juarez toward El Paso. It is a rare photo of that angle Carmeldesigner 22:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

INFO UPDATE: I will be in El Paso in mid-June. If anyone thinks that the article could benefit from some newer pictures of El Paso, please let me know. I will be taking my Nikon with both 18-55 and 55-200 lenses, so I should be able to get some very nice shots. Edit Centric (talk) 08:29, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

so what?
"It stands on the Rio Grande (Río Bravo del Norte), across the border from Ciudad Juárez. The two cities form a metropolitan area of 2,280,782 making it the largest international border community in which the developed and newly industrialized worlds meet in such a close proximity."

--Loodog 04:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) "Developed" and "industrialized" are somewhat subjective judgement words that are far from a black and white dichotomy. I don't see how the notion of the closest place between them can even be objectively measured.
 * 2) There's no source on this "fact".
 * 3) Such esoteric information really fails the "so what?" test.

I've read this somewhat absurd claim that El Paso has been making for years, sometimes without any qualification. San Diego-Tijuana is 4.9 million people and Detroit-Windsor 6.0 million. The latter makes the same claim without the vague qualifiers now that Hong Kong has been returned to China.

San Diego-Tijuana metropolitan area

Windsor-Detroit

Rijkstra 15:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Very well. I'm removing it.--Loodog 15:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Good move, but I would still like to know how El Paso's claim originated. I neglected to mention that San Diego-Tijuana has the busiest border crossing in the world, something you would expect in El Paso-Juárez if the claim had any merit. Detroit-Windsor doesn't have it because San Diego-Tijuana is more balanced in population on both sides of the border.--Rijkstra 16:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

El Paso's claim originated back when San Diego did not touch the US/Mexico Border. Now that San Diego does touch the US/Mexico border, El Paso/Juarez dropped down to 2nd largest bi-national metro area on the US/Mexico Border. As a fellow El Pasoan, most people think that El Paso is bigger than many cities. El Paso back in 1995 was the 4th largest city in Texas, now it's the 6th. El Paso is basically stuck in the past. With no opportunities here, everyone is moving away. Smguy101 04:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Well as far as "everyone is moving away comment" - El Paso is on Forbes fastest growing cities in the United States list at no. 11. from 2013. The fact is Texas is growing, period. Other parts of Texas are just growing faster. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/edgl45fgfj/no-11-el-paso-texas/ - BR — Preceding unsigned comment added by BanditRider22 (talk • contribs) 06:04, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

San Diego annexed the border area in 1957, but even before then the claim had a hurdle because unincorporated South San Diego was still part of the San Diego Metro area. Most of the time I've seen El Paso's claim it was not limited to Mexico and that claim has always been trumped by Detroit-Windsor. San Diego has been in a slow economic decline as well. In 1990 it was the 6th largest city in the U.S., but since then Phoenix (6) and San Antonio (7) have passed it. Having a border nearby could be a curse, because many of the U.S. cities' costs related to its proximity aren't fully reimbursed by the federal government.--Rijkstra 01:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Meaning?
What is this supposed to mean: Recent city-wide projects funded through the election of bonds have once again pushed the urban sprawl onward for El Paso. Does this mean the city is subsidising urban sprawl? I doubt it. As far as I can tell from the context the author was attempting to describe urban renewal - which is quite a different concept that sprawl. Regards,  Signature brendel  04:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Why were the temperature stats removed?
Seems very curious that someone with no edit history would come in and nuke something as relevant as that without explaining why.Talshiarr 03:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

In popular culture
El Paso is the scene of certain dramatic incidents in the movie "No Country for Old Men" and mentioned several times in the script. Should this information be included somewhere in the article (e.g. under the heading "El Paso in popular culture")? Gjnyasa (talk) 05:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, since this is in popular culture. However, it seems someone merged in popular culture movie list with the filmed in El Paso list causing a conflict of information. - BR — Preceding unsigned comment added by BanditRider22 (talk • contribs) 06:07, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

DEA
DEA stands for Drug Enforcement Administration, NOT Agency.Jimgreff (talk) 02:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

El Paso a suburb of Juarez?
Currently the lead has this sentence:


 * "El Paso is part of the Greater Ciudad Juarez Metropolitan Area with a population of 2,049,648, with Juarez accounting for 2/3 of the Metro population. "

For the first, using the words "Greater Ciudad Juarez Metropolitan Area" demands a violation of WP:SYNTH to get that wording, and secondly it makes El Paso a suburb of another country's city, where they are separated by a geographical feature (the Rio Grande), and a national boundary. That wording is a neologism created here and now being used on other websites. They are quoting Wikipedia, so we can't use them as a source since Wikipedia can't use itself as a source. This needs changing. There is nothing wrong with describing the near geographical relationship between the two cities, but we can't use that wording (which would naturally please those Mexicans who would like to reassert their previous ownership of Texas ;-) They are two separate cities ruled by two sovereign powers. -- Fyslee / talk 05:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed the neologism. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 16:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Church Raid
Where is the fact that a Mormon sect was located here, and was raided by the US. govt. ? Powerzilla (talk) 20:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * GOD I'm late but I'll just point out in case any other incredibly ignorant people stumble upon this page that the ranch was in Eldorado,_Texas near Schleicher County, Texas which is in Central Texas and nearly 400 miles away from El Paso. El is a pretty common prefix in Texas and the rest of the Southwest. Please use google before getting indignant about your "facts". GO SLOWLY ▪  TALK  01:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Nicknames
Since we had a minor edit war going on nicknames, I found and added a reliable source for "The Sun City", but didn't find much for the others, so removed them. I recommend that whoever wants to add other nicknames first find WP:RSs for them, then cite those when adding them. Dicklyon (talk) 18:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

"In the border town of El Paso—better known to its Mexican American residents as El Chuco" ...I have not heard of any other widely used nickname for the city, except for "Hell Paso," and that seems derogatory, like calling Cleveland "Mistake By The Lake." As for having more than one nickname in the infobox, I see no sense in that per se (we call Los Angeles "L.A." and "City of Angels," we call New York "The Big Apple" and "Gotham City," we call New Orleans "The Big Easy", "Crescent City" and "NOLA"). The Wikipedia page for Pachuco says that that was a Mexican Spanish slang term for a resident of the El Paso-Ciudad Juarez area going back to the early 20th century and suggests that "El Chuco" evolved from that (I don't know what the source for that statement is and if anybody wants to help me chase it down, that'd be good). In any case, my opinion is that "El Chuco" is in sufficiently wide and long-standing usage and is basically non-pejorative and therefore warrants being in the infobox. Methychroma (talk) 06:27, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know how many non-Hispanics call El Paso "El Chuco"--I suspect not many--but a Google search for that nickname suggests that it's fairly well-used and has stuck. I found a University of Arizona Press book review--that's on their website--and cited it as a reference:


 * Sun City, Border Town {..::M@®©™ ::..} (talk) 03:49, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Chihuahua city is not a sister city
im going to remove chihuahua, chihuahua, mexico as a sister city since its not a sister city of el paso ciudad juarez is the nly sister city since its just accros the river. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.42.211.4 (talk) 12:10, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Chihuahua was adopted as a Sister City in November 2008. I've updated the list of Sister Cities and given references for each one. --Uncia (talk) 16:50, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Skyline Image Idea (Please Consider)
I know this has been brought up before, but I think we really need a new main skyline picture. The current one is not visually appealing and the color appears to be washed out. I think we should use this image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/DowntownEP.jpg from the Commons. It is an interesting angle, the colors look vibrant, and the source is the city of EP website. What do you think? I would do this myself but i dont know how to. Maybe someone can help. :)


 * That skyline image from the Commons is awesome. I wish you guys would use that one.  Also, I think you all are doing a great job with the El Paso Wiki.  Keep it up. - not currently a logged in user but I once was.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.157.160.13 (talk) 18:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I think It's time for the El Paso page to put a picture of the skyline at night with all the buildings lighted. Chase Tower needs the floodlights on, the Wells Fargo Plaza needs to turn on their pattern, and the lights along I-10 need to be turned on again. The day that happens is the day I take a picture of it and put it on here for the world to see.Smguy101 (talk) 03:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm still headed that way in June. If anyone can come up with some good ideas on the skyline shot that they want to see (short of from across the border, I'm not planning on entering Ciudad De Juarez!), please submit your requests here, and I will make it a point to go and shoot these while I'm there. Edit Centric (talk) 18:53, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

A skyline picture with no mountains visible? Seems nutty. Dicklyon (talk) 04:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

What about a picture of El Paso from the Mountains. A night view maybe? The star on the Franklin Mountains? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.117.167.82 (talk) 04:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk page maintenance
Would anyone be adverse to me moving the bottom "Skyline Image Idea" entry up to where the rest of this discussion is taking place? Edit Centric (talk) 18:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Go for it! That image needs some help.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.157.160.13 (talk) 18:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Not a mention of Spanish?
There's not a single mention of the fact that El Paso's vernacular is Spanish. The following link would suggest that at least 60% of all households speak Spanish at home: .--Abenyosef (talk) 03:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see anything there that suggests that; and a suggestion isn't enough. Find a reliable source about how many speak Spanish, or how many speak Spanish at home, or how many speak only Spanish, and add what you find.  Dicklyon (talk) 04:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe you haven't read the source carefully enough? It reports the percentage of people who speak Spanish at home for all levels of educational attainment. You've just got to add up the percentages of Spanish speakers for all educational levels and you'll get 62,74% of Spanish speakers in El Paso. It's as reliable a source as the Government of Texas.--Abenyosef (talk) 18:13, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The source has categories like "Speak only English" versus "Speak Spanish". The suggestion is that many of the latter probably speak both English and Spanish at home.  So you can't conclude from that "that El Paso's vernacular is Spanish", can you?  Dicklyon (talk) 02:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I suggest that we include a mention of Spanish along these lines: (in the Culture section) "English and Spanish are the main languages spoken in El Paso. According to Texas government statistics, XXX% of El Paso residents speak English only at home, while YYY% speak Spanish." That way, we would be citing a reliable source almost verbatim.--Abenyosef (talk) 20:45, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you change "Enlish only at home" to "only English at home", it will be correct and OK by me. Dicklyon (talk) 07:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Sun Metro - own article
I've noticed until now Sun Metro Mass Transit System (Sun Metro) does not have its own article. I created it after making comparisons to other major cities that have their own such articles. GETONERD84 (talk) 16:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Observation: length
Just an observation but the article length is pretty long and the history section looks perfect for creating a new article.

--Mcorazao (talk) 18:36, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * BTW, I recently proposed creating a history Navbox for Texas history-related articles. The navbox includes links to the histories of the major cities. It is preferable to link to whole articles instead of sub-sections of articles. --Mcorazao (talk) 15:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * In the spirit of WP:BOLD I created a separate history article and abbreviated the history here on this page. Please feel free to hack on what I've done as you see fit. --Mcorazao (talk) 22:42, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Media; Kill Bill
The entry currently says that the movie Kill Bill was partially filmed in El Paso. While a key scene was set in El Paso, my understanding is that it was not shot in El Paso--and this would seem to be backed up by the scene in the film, which features cactus that is not found in El Paso. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Egavactip (talk • contribs) 21:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've seen the entry added, removed, and modified. Looks like someone is going to have to do some research and get some verifiable sources for the issue of where filming took place, versus the setting of a work of fiction.  &mdash;Aladdin Sane (talk) 22:11, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

-As stated above, someone merged the in popular movie listing with the filmed in El Paso list creating a conflict. - BR — Preceding unsigned comment added by BanditRider22 (talk • contribs) 06:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

PRONUNCIATION!!!
The pronunciation that appears in the article is the one English speaking people use, but the name El Paso has a clear Spanish ethimology, and so, it's pronounced "el paso", just like de "a" of America, and not with that "u" sound after the "o". I haven't used those fonetical figures but anyway it seams to me that it's clear enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.130.250.86 (talk) 12:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What? you have to be more clearer. {..::M@®©™ ::..} (talk) 02:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Mistake
There seems to be mistake under "Demographics". Speaking of Pacific Islanders, non-Hispanic ones are mentioned. The odd passage has been removed.

Population rank in Texas.
I noticed it said at the beginning that El Paso is the fifth largest city in Texas. Being a population statistics geek from Texas, I know this isn't true. While El Paso is indeed the fifth largest metropolitan area in Texas, it's the sixth largest city. So I edited it, and someone undid it asking for a source. I reedited it with a source included.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

The top ten cities in Texas rank:

1.  Houston          2,257,926

2.  San Antonio   1,373,668

3.  Dallas              1,299,543

4.  Austin                786,382

5.  Fort Worth         727,575

6.  El Paso               620,447

7.  Arlington           380,084

8.  Corpus Christi  287,438

9.  Plano                  273,611

10. Laredo              226,122

If you look at older versions of this article, you'll see that it used to say El Paso was number 6 in Texas. It wasn't until 12 days ago that some unregistered user changed it to fifth (and was never called out on it). If you look at the wikipedia article for Fort Worth, you'll see that it's also credited as being the fifth largest city in Texas (which it is).

I hope this clears up any confusion. Until 128,000 people move into El Paso, or 241,000 move out, please don't change it's state population rank.

DKW 85 (talk) 05:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

El Paso's metropolitan population estimated by the US Census is 763,186. NOT 804,000 that the El Paso Times story stated. Someone keeps listing this as the estimated population, which is from a news paper article and not an official count. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.28.43.191 (talk) 23:57, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Popular culture
How about splitting off the Popular culture section into a separate article El Paso Texas in popular culture? RJFJR (talk) 15:32, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I like this idea. It would help to clear up some of the clutter in the article.  At the very least, if nothing else, names and bands should be moved to the List of people from El Paso, Texas.
 * R.E. (talk) 07:31, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Image copyright problem
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 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --22:15, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

What's the population of El Paso?
The text reads ''El Paso (pronounced /ɛlˈpæsoʊ/) is a city in and the county seat of El Paso County, Texas, United States, and lies in far West Texas. In the 2010 census, the city had a population of 649,121.[1] It is the sixth largest city in Texas and the 19th largest city in the United States. Its metropolitan area covers all of El Paso County, whose population in the 2010 census was 800,647.[1]''

If El Paso encompasses the whole county area how is it that the county has a larger population than the city which ecnompasses all of it? Montalban (talk) 00:35, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The county is larger than the city. The county of El Paso includes cities other than El Paso, such as Socorro, Ysleta, etc. Ratemonth (talk) 01:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Then the article is wrong because it says

Its metropolitan area covers all of El Paso County

Montalban (talk) 00:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

The metropolitan area is more than just the city. As the infobox on the right side of the article points out, the area includes "El Paso-Las Cruces-Ciudad Juarez Metropolitan Area."Ratemonth (talk) 00:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The article says that the city encompasses the entire county. Its now said here that the county includes other centres. One of these statements must be wrong

Montalban (talk) 03:58, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Please point out where the article says that the city (not the metropolitan area, but the city) encompasses the entire county, and I will fix it. Ratemonth (talk) 12:23, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I quoted it in the opening of this section

Montalban (talk) 22:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Nowhere does it say that the city is bigger than the county. Again, the city and the metropolitan area are different things. Ratemonth (talk) 23:14, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Aspects of the Mexican Punitive Expedition
In the years following the Mexican Punitive Expedition (1916-1917) there were still minor clashes with Mexican [insurgents], who continued to disturb the border in various places, including El Paso, on 15-16 June, 1919.  Musicwriter (talk) 15:58, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Problems with the table.
The table on the right shich shows pictures and some general informaiton about El Paso is not displayed correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.241.187.165 (talk) 14:15, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Geography section bloat
The geography section recently picked up over 10 KB more text, almost all copied from various other articles, without acknowledging them. I've just adding "main links" so the content source can be found, and so we can trim back what's in the this article without losing anything. The editor who did this, User:B575, showed up in June and has editted little but the El Paso article and some football articles. He seems a lot like User:Dimples915, another El Paso area-code-focused editor who frustrated me by never discovering his user talk page. See if this new one is any better. Dicklyon (talk) 20:02, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

And suddenly dimples is back. He seems to make worse typos than the other guy; who knows? Anyway, I reverted his pile of edits to see if I can get his attention. Dicklyon (talk) 00:15, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

He also edits as User:24.28.190.253, probably when he can't understand why his edits are disappearing. Dicklyon (talk) 05:33, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested move by 161.130.188.188 (talk) at 04:44, 13 April 2014

 * El Paso, Texas → El Paso  – Per the naming convention for the other major Texas cities of Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. Just like with those three other names, when people say "El Paso," they are usually referring to the city in Texas. – 161.130.188.188 (talk) 04:44, 13 April 2014 (UTC)


 * No. See WP:USPLACE. Dicklyon (talk) 06:13, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Caution removing specific enteries Onel5969 you wanted to remove one specific entry of UTEPs description of architecture but instead removed multiple entries. The Wiki citation has been removed and replaced. Please contact members or pose a question prior to completely removing hours worth of work. BanditRider22 (talk) 03:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Support per nom. Chessrat ( talk, contributions ) 19:49, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Are mayors relevant to El Paso history?
User Dicklyon deleted names of several mayors from the recently created Timeline of El Paso, Texas, claiming they lack historical signficance. I disagree; mayors are part of El Paso's history. What do others think? Do mayors belong in the timeline of El Paso history or not? -- M2545 (talk) 07:04, 15 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Mayors known for something other than being mayor of El Paso are worth listing; otherwise they're just names on a list, with no significance. They of course are included in the List of mayors of El Paso, Texas.  Dicklyon (talk) 07:06, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

2010
Under "Demographics", the figures for the 2010 Census don't add up to 100% in a big way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.12.93.74 (talk) 14:29, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality tag
I'm finding it a little confusing that there is a Neutrality tag on the main article under Performing arts, but I can't find any relevant discussion about the topic on the talk page that seems to relate to it. Is it an older tag that is meant to address the "Confusion with South Texas History" discussion? If so, can we remove it since performing arts has nothing to do with the other discussion? Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:09, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Sister Cities
Per Sister Cities International (see the directory here, El Paso has no Sister Cities.  Onel 5969  TT me 04:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

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C-Class?
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Hi! I'd like to credit you with doing a great job of overviewing El Paso and its history. As a local, I'd like to suggest that you add "Cool Canyon Nights" to the Arts section of your article. (information can be found at https://www.tourtexas.com/all-events/76388/COOL-CANYON-NIGHTS). Also, i don't believe the El Paso balloonfest is an evemnt anymore, but I could be wrong. I have not seen balloons during the past several years. But please correct me if it still goes on. Best, Natsz72 (talk) 16:14, 29 August 2018 (UTC)