Talk:Elastomeric respirator/Archive 1

DYK
Good job on this article! I hope you're planning to submit it for DYK, but you'd need to submit it today-ish to meet the deadline. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 01:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * , thank you! You've added a great deal to it, too. I hadn't thought of DYK, but it's a good idea. Actually we've got until Wednesday according to DYKcheck, presumably due to the way it's been growing (five-times-expanded criterion). I'd have to cite all the uncited stuff for DYK; that's six cites and the "in popular culture" section, I've just gone through and tagged. Doable. Do you see any serious problems/omissions in the article? HLHJ (talk) 02:32, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Overall it's good for DYK, and getting close to GA quality. There are probably some topics that could be added or expanded, I'll take a closer look tomorrow. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 04:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I've tackled some of the citation-neededs, but there are still a few. I've nominated it anyway, with you as co-author. Do you have any ideas for the hook? The topic seems visual enough to have an image; I picked one I think will be hooky, but do you see any better ones on Commons? HLHJ (talk) 05:08, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * , I've performed a DYK review, and I justed wanted to let you know there are still some citation needed templates present.


 * Thank you, . I've gotten rid of most of the citation-neededs; remaining tasks:
 * a solid WP:MEDRS source on desorbtion of chemical filters. Have not found one yet.
 * I'm a bit doubtful about the unidirectional-filters sentence, it was added by someone else to another article and I can't find anything on the subject. If I still haven't when the rest is sorted, I will comment it out.
 * Globalizing the bit on when they must be worn. I don't think this is critical as I doubt it will vary much worldwide.
 * A picture of a transparent respirator in the "communication" section would be very nice.
 * asking WP:MED for a medical review before it actually goes up. I know this isn't mandatory, but I think it's wise.
 * I'm not sure if there is enough on air-supplying masks. It would be possible to change the article scope to "air-filtering elastomeric respirator". Opinions, and additions to the to-do list, welcome. HLHJ (talk) 05:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)


 * One more note: Juan Carlos Lentijo (pictured in the second image) and other IAEA workers photographed on Commons wear full-face respirators over glasses. This contradicts the text. HLHJ (talk) 06:46, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Main-article links
, I notice you've removed some of the main-article link templates, like:

Apologies if this is just Visual Editor doing strange things, but do you think the main-article links are undesirable? HLHJ (talk) 02:42, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * In that case it wasn't the right target for a main article hatnote. Respirator cartridge is just about chemical cartridges whereas the section is about all types of filters. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 04:16, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Hmm, that is a deficiency. What does one call a particulate filter refill for a respirator? Is there a general term for filters, cartridges, and canisters? We should have content on all of them, somewhere. I can't even find a suitably-licensed photo of the pancake-style filters disconnected from the respirator body. Nor a photo of a respirator with a window or a diaphragm, though a solid trawl through Commons may turn up one I can crop. I'll have a look soon.
 * What about the gas mask article, which is exclusively about conflict use? Would you feel it was suitable for the see-also section? HLHJ (talk) 04:45, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Mechanical filters are covered at Mechanical filter respirator; I don't think we need a separate article on "removable" mechanical filters. Or maybe it could be renamed to Mechanical filter (respirator).  I think gas mask is an interesting case.  The name specifies a toxin rather than a filtration method or physical form, and the article talks almost exclusively about devices prior to the end of WWII.  (The modern name would be CBRN respirator, which apparently are predominantly powered air-purifying respirators today.)  It's not a synonym for elastomeric respirator, since older gas masks appear to have been made out of a variety of materials including rubber or heavy fabric.  I think it's a good see-also item.  John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 01:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)


 * That sounds like an excellent idea: "Mechanical filter (respirator)" and "Chemical filter (respirator)". It makes the ontology much easier. But then there is HEPA filter: it too is a mechanical air filter, essentially the same mechanisms as far as I can tell. And there's air filter and air purifier. I tried a bit to organize at Breathing mask, and frankly the ontology of the articles is a bit of a mess, second only to Commons, where "vaguely respirator-like" seems to be about all that's reliably categorized. I know you're likely most familiar with US terminology, and I wonder if different countries have different regulation-based categories.
 * I've been looking through things like the CDC video in the article, and the NIOSH seems to have a lot of good stock photos used in assorted publications. If you know anyone who has a folder full of those, they could be quite useful on Commons. The one showing two masks with the filters dismantled to show a P100 in one and I think and N95 in the other, for instance.
 * I went through 50-odd links, and the "Gas mask" article seems to be linked to in the meanings:


 * 1) WWII wargas masks
 * 2) WWI wargas masks
 * 3) similar civilian-worn masks in other conflicts
 * 4) modern military CBRN masks
 * 5) elastomeric respirators
 * I suspect that a split and disambig would be the right solution here, but a difficult one.
 * The plant-nursery gas mask in the photo seems to be made of leather. I'm not sure if oilcloth would count as an elastomer.
 * Would you happen to know of a good source for the construction & chemical industry para, or the bit on chemical cartridges? If not I'll try to dig one up. I think the other citation-neededs are on sentences that can be commented out for the DYK. HLHJ (talk) 18:59, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I've cited some of the industry stuff. Do you know if this image is public-domain or Queen's copyright in Canada, John P. Sadowski (NIOSH)? HLHJ (talk) 22:54, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Not sure about that image; it's a Canadian government work. Almost anything by NIOSH is a public domain U.S. government work and you can upload it, unless it says its a stock photo or is from another source.
 * It seems that the WP:COMMONNAMEs are "mechanical filter" and "chemical cartridge". The word "filter" seems to be use with chemical cartridges only informally, and the work "cartridge" is never used with respirator mechanical filters.  (If you search for "mechanical filter cartridge", you will only get results for aquarium filters.)  The mechanical filter article needs a parenthetical disambiguation because Mechanical filter also refers to an electronic component.  The chemical cartridge article doesn't need a disambiguation because the term isn't used any other way on Wikipedia.  It seems to have a minor secondary meaning relevant to chemical databases but that can be dealt with in a hat-note.  I can make these changes now.
 * For gas mask, I'd be hesitant about a large-scale reorganization. I think "gas mask" can be defined as a mask with a chemical cartridge filter, but it describes the entire mask and not just the filter.  This is important because due to its history it was made out of different materials prior to the immediate post-WWII era than the ones used today.  Elastomers would only have been commercially available after WWII.  I think it should be preserved largely as-is, with a section at the end pointing to articles that describe the modern equivalents of the gas mask. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 04:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of making "gas mask" a historical article, with links to later developments, though there are a bunch of other things want to do first. I had already redirected some "WWII gas mask" links to subsections in the gasmask article, those for specifically WWII (or WWI as appropriate) masks. Given the  variety of things that people link to "gas mask" from, renaming "gas mask" and making it a disambig page might encourage editors to decide which sense they mean, meaning fewer inappropriate links in the future, and more appropriate links here. One other possibility is to rename this article "Reusable air-purifying respirator". WW gas masks were that. I'm not sure I favour that, as FFRs look set to become reusable if certain tech advances pan out.
 * Pity about the lack of parallelism in the names, but that is mostly what I've seen, at least in the US sources.
 * Hmm. Those images might possibly be a copyvio problem; we have a lot of CDC content under public domain on Commons, and if no-one got permission to release the stock images and used-with-permission images as PD, the PD does not apply to the inline-credited images, so we'd technically have to remove them, black them out or some such. I doubt the Canadian government is going to sue Wikipedia, and it would be a lot of work, but I think that would be the legal requirement. Of course, if the stock images came off Commons it would not be a problem . HLHJ (talk) 06:42, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Images
Notes for future use. Donning, head cradle first, strap adjustment. HLHJ (talk) 06:06, 7 September 2020 (UTC)