Talk:Electric Dylan controversy

Faulty Reference/Rolling Stone Article
The article in question (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/6085476/dylan_goes_electric_in_1965), with which many of the facts this article is based on, isn't entirely factual. The article claims Dylan's performance at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival prior to going "electric" consisted of "All I Really Wanna Do" and "Mr. Tambourine Man". Dylan played "All I Really Wanna Do", "If You Gotta Go, Go Now", and "Love Minus Zero/No Limits" acoustically, and not Mr Tambourine Man until after going electric. If you want proof, look up the tracklist of the documentaries on the festival: "The Other Side of the Mirror", or "Festival", both of which document his performances in their entirety. (Here's a link if you need one: http://www.wcny.org/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.garden_flypage/product_id,300/category_id,3/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,155/vmcchk,1/) If you need more proof that this article is wonky, they make the statement that Like a Rolling Stone was cut on June 16th, though they do not mention that the song was released on July 20th (five days before the concert), which downplays the single's importance in the matter since practically no one had heard it and it had yet to be a top 10 hit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.72.36 (talk) 00:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The previous poster is correct: the set list for the July 24 show as it was stated was not correct. I have adjusted it to reflect the selction of songs and order in which they were actually played that day (verified by watching a recording of the concert on the DVD "The Other Side Of The Mirror.")

Cal (talk) 00:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

John Cordwell?
Apparently, the identity of the person who shouted "Judas!" is disputed, and seems to be likely as not someone called Keith Butler. So I'm adding this. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 13:17, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Royal Albert Hall
It was actually at Royal Albert Hall that someone called Dylan "Judas"; anyone who owns Live Bootleg Series Vol. 1 (a remastered recording of this concert) could confirm this, which I am doing here and now as I own the record and can say for a fact that this did not take place at Manchester Free. 62 Misfit (talk) 05:17, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

'Newport 1965 set' section addition
I've added a fair bit of detail to this section. It seems out of place at the moment as the remainder of the article is less detailed. This page covers a fascinating bit of history, hopefully it'll get fleshed out more and more. AndoDoug (talk) 08:58, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

anomimous
I think that Bob Dylan is one of the genius of the music, without him, a part of the real music woulndn't exist. he is the example, i said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.77.111.86 (talk) 19:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move. JPG-GR (talk) 19:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Electric Dylan controversy → Bob Dylan at the Newport Folk Festival 1965 — 'Controversy' is a greatly overused word, particularly on Wikipedia. The new title I propose states that it is about a particular Dylan concert, and contains details on that (and hence its repercussions). — Dancarney (talk) 14:08, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support move: much clearer title proposed, the "controversy" over Dylan going electric was not restricted to just one show. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose suggested title. As with discussion below, the location was not the notable event so will not help readers to make the title like that. I also do not object to controversy, because that is what it was. (see my third link below.) But per Andrewa I would support Dylan goes electric or Bob Dylan goes electric. I google 'Dylan electric' and three of the first good results are: "Dylan goes electric" on BBC website. "Dylan goes electric" from the book 'No Direction Home: The Life and Music of Bob Dylan'. "Bob Dylan justifies ‘going electric’" by NME. These are three good sources and they all favor same approximate description. Chryslerforever1988 (talk) 17:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose suggested title. I agree that the location, while helpful, it not key to idea of why this topic is important/notable. Support for Bob Dylan goes electric per above sourcing and two more - Rolling Stones 50 moments that changed the history of rock & roll and Newsweek article. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:33, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose in preference to "Dylan goes electric". Sceptre (talk) 21:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Unsure, tending to oppose. For example, I instantly knew by the current title what it was about, and was disappointed not to find a photo of Dylan playing a solid-body guitar in the set in the article lead, I've seen many photos of this over the years. But I had only a vague idea of where and when the events described took place. If I'm at all typical, then by WP:NC, it should probably stay where it is. Andrewa (talk) 12:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that those only briefly acquainted with Dylan may not know that the event happened at Newport. On the other hand, I suppose redirects could cover other possibilities. I prefer the suggested title to the current one but only because the current one has it's own failings. Dylan goes electric, for instance, could be preferable but that title also has it's own problems. I'm thinking of a weak support for the move as long as any "Electric" alternatives are redirected. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 01:40, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Bob Dylan is my favourite musician, I play his stuff, own his records, etc... So it's not only those only briefly acquainted who don't know all the details by heart! Andrewa (talk) 07:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the most important problems to address are a) that the title should include "Bob Dylan", rather than just "Dylan" and b) the unnecessary use of the word "controversy". Dancarney (talk) 14:11, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Where it happened is more significant than that he started playing an electric guitar. It was at the Newport Folk Festival. So many folk guitarists went through an electric stage that they started calling it "unplugged" when they went back to an acoustic guitar. How about "Bob Dylan Newport 1965"? 199.125.109.99 (talk) 00:37, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Your argument seems to underline that the important thing is that he went electric, not the festival. Many musicians other than folk guitarists turned to electric at the time. It's still called Newport Folk Festival to this day, not Newport Electric Folk Festival. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 04:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I was trying to say that the only significant thing about the event was that it occurred at the folk festival, at a time when folk musicians would not touch electric instruments with a ten foot pole. 199.125.109.99 (talk) 13:35, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Opening Line
Has this ever actually been referred to as the "Electric Dylan Controversy"? If not, I don't think we should imply that thats what it was known as. --Feeling free (talk) 15:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

As someone who was there, I have a somewhat different view from many of the other interpretations of the crowd that night. I will always believe that his poor song choice for the opening caused much of the reported negative reactions. "Maggie's Farm" is essentially an atonal rant, with no opportunity to show what good electric folk-rock could sound like (when was the last time you heard it played on the radio, compared with the last time you heard any other of Dylan's electric songs?). With the sound system as bad as it was, this song came out horribly, and the combination of a poor song choice and a poor sound system made many people (myself included) quite unhappy. When he launched into "Like A Rolling Stone", however, a song with myriad chord changes and a classic keyboard riff, the crowd's attitude changed immediately. Perhaps if he had led off with "Like A Rolling Stone" instead of "Maggie's Farm", the whole controversy might never have occurred. Smk1945 (talk) 15:53, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

F-Harmonica
This article states that when the crowd threw up a handful of E harmonicas, Dylan grabbed an F that was thrown amongst them, and, that in order to play the two songs he planned to, he needed to put on a capo. This makes no sense, as both "Mr. Tambourine Man" and "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" are in the key of E, and Dylan plays them in that key. And besides, you would have to capo a guitar on the fourth fret to play a D-shaped chord as an F-chord (for "Mr. Tambourine Man"), and you would have to place a capo on the fifth fret to play a C-shaped chord as an F-chord (for "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue"). If you look at the footage, you can tell that Dylan is playing on the regular frets (3d and 4th). BootleggerWill (talk) 18:26, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Tone

 * I've added a "tone" tag to this article: It seems to read like an essay most of the time, but it also sounds anecdotal when explaining itself. The facts are all there (and the article is surprisingly well cited compared to similar articles), but it needs to be rewritten so that it reads in a concise and relevant manner. bwmcmaste (talk) 23:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I've started to re-write and re-work this article. There is solid info here, but, in places, it is diminished by speculative interpretations of events. Mick gold (talk) 10:16, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The tone of the article is improved and I have removed the tag. bwmcmaste (talk) 02:44, 2 January 2011 (UTC)