Talk:Elemental spirits (Mana)

Page Building
I've set up the page so that it redirects to Seiken Densetsu currently. That aside, I kinda have an idea that we divide the topic into two sections: Does that sound good to you? If so, who's going to do what? --LichYoshi 09:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The first section would discuss each Elemental in turn using the information that's been written about them on the other Seiken Densetsu pages - cut and paste, link the bits together, and fill the holes and gloss over them with a link to the page incorporated in the text. What I feel this part should focus on is what information is presented in the games and instruction manuals, so it would discuss the element's attributes (but not a list of spells), locations of the spirits, personalities, changes between different games etc. Perhaps we'd do it in the order they're collected in Secret of Mana, since that's the most widely known game (unless you think of a better order).
 * The second section would be a discussion about the elementology itself. For example, the relationship between the elements (what's stronger than the other, Legend of Mana 's system) would go here; perhaps a mention of LoM's worldbuilding would be good too. Also, I think here would be a good place to discuss the similarities of the system with other elementologies (Classical Greek, Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, etc.), so your name etymologies would go in this section too, rather than the above.

Sounds fine to me. I can do either part. More likely than not, I can just get stuff together that you might miss or whatever. But since it's your baby, would you want to start? Kidicarus222 06:10, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that's everything. -LichYoshi 07:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Days of the Week
Does anybody know if the days of the week follow the same order in Legend of Mana as they do in Seiken Densetsu 3?Kidicarus222 05:03, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The order is different. Assuming Luna/Aura's day is the first day of the week (like in SD3): Aura, Gnome, Jinn, Dryad, Undine, and Salamander. --LichYoshi 02:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * In fact, the order is reversed. Seiken Densetsu 3 and Sword of Mana both follow a similar schedule as the Japanese days of the week:  Mana Holy Day (Sunday : Day of the Sun) -> Luna Day (Monday : Day of the Moon) -> Salamander Day (Tuesday : Day of Fire) -> Undine Day (Wednesday : Day of Water) -> Dryad Day (Thursday : Day of Wood) -> Jinn Day (Friday : Day of Gold) -> Gnome Day (Saturday : Day of Earth).   As you can see, the only discrepancy is between Jinn Day being Friday, but this arises from the fact that "wind" doesn't have a day, and so Jinn fills that one gap, as there is no spirit of Gold/Metal.  In Legend of Mana, this day order is backwards, and also excludes Mana Holy Day, and even though there's now a Metal spirit, there isn't any addition switching around.  Rather than have Aura (Metal/Gold) fill the role of Friday, she remains with control over ex-Luna's "Monday", leaving "Gold Day" to Jinn as in previous games. I do think it's interesting that the day sequence is backwards in Legend of Mana.  -JC 02:28, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Luna and Aura
I was looking at promotional art for SD3 and I noticed how different Luna looks to Aura. They're the same color, but Aura seems drastically re-designed. Should Luna and Aura be considered different characters?Kidicarus222 05:03, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The Luna/Aura section has a quick discussion from both sides of the issue. --LichYoshi 06:28, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Shade
While the Dark Elemental lends his powers to evil purposes, his willingness to give his powers to the "forces of good" (the main characters), including his nefarious Evil Gate spell, does not necessarily make Shade evil; rather, he should be considered the "black sheep" of the Elemental family. -Me (LichYoshi) While the Dark Elemental's powers [are] very purely descructive[sic] and natural for evil purposes... -24.12.65.117 What I intend to imply here is the fact that most antagonists in the series use Shade's powers (the "lending to evil purposes" part), but that doesn't necessarily make Shade inherently evil. The Anon-user's words do not convey this meaning in the context of the rest of the sentence, I feel. It would also imply that since Salamando's powers are also purely destructive (save the attack power boost spell), they are also suitable for evil purposes when all Elementals' spells can be used for either good or evil (look at the monsters who cast them, for example). Shade requires the extra clarification due to his/its dark alignment, hence the revert. -LichYoshi 13:35, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation
What sources do we have for how to pronounce "Undine" and the other Elementals? It could be different depending on the player's language: SoM was released in Europe, after all. -LichYoshi 13:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, you could go by the Japanese, in which case Undine is written ウンディーネ (u n dii ne)... -JC 02:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It's pronounced un-deen rhymes with sheen. Almighty Rajah 03:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
As you know many people put a lot of hard work into this article, and I would love to help get it to Good article status. If merged into the main Mana series article, and with some out of universe sources, I bet it could do that. I talked it over with some people at the Square - Enix wikiproject and they sounded positive, so I'll propose it here. My goal is to featured the Mana series article, and adding the elemental spirits there would help a lot, and it's better to have 1 featured article than 2 kinda good ones :) Judgesurreal777 18:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Having done (perhaps) the greatest part of work on this article, I'm sure you can understand my inherent caution at merging this article into the main Seiken Densetsu, however I can definitely see where you are coming from. Stepping back from my "baby", though, I'm not sure that merging would neccessarily be a good idea as the sheer length of this article would swamp Seiken Densetsu - though perhaps some of it can be trimmed with a chainsaw. My main concern, though, is that this page, along with Rabite and Flammie were created along the same vein as the sub-articles for Final Fantasy, e.g. Chocobo, and by merging this into the main article, the importance of the Elementals as the most commonly recurring characters would be lost. -LichYoshi 02:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand how you feel, the page is very extensive and you wouldn't want to lose the work done. I think most of it could be retained and a very sizable section would be fine, since the elemental spirits are very important to the series. Also, I would be thrilled to work on the Seiken Densetsu article so that the main series article, which now includes the sword of mana, tree of mana, rabites, and Flammie, would be Good and then featured like all those final fantasy articles are being lately. Love the series myself, so that was the goal. Judgesurreal777 03:12, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Would it be better, I wonder, to create a summary of the currently merged articles on Seiken Densetsu (i.e. Rabite, Flammie, the Sword and the Tree) and then do the FF thing of having a page or two devoted to the common menagerie and characters/races of the series? That way, there would be enough summarial information on the Seiken Densetsu page without going into depth of each common thread to the extent that the Elementals article does, and should a reader want further information, it's in one or two places. I'd be happy to merge the Elementals page into a characters/figures/menagerie or whatever page, but merging it into Seiken Densetsu, like I said, would lose the gist of the SD article for Joe and Joanna Reader; less would be more in that regards for a featured article. What do you think? -LichYoshi 05:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Races of Final Fantasy has actually been split between individual games and a Common themes of Final Fantasy article. Kariteh 12:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Undine a Naiad??
How is the undine a naiad?Naiads are water spirits with human legs!She looks more like a mermaid so i'm changing it to mermaid instead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jakegothic (talk • contribs).

Caps?
The lead gives "Elemental Spirits", but the article title gives "elemental spirits". Please be consistent and fix it (and the links pointing here). Thanks, Shinobu 02:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Falling in love without a soul...
undines could only get a soul by falling in love with and marrying a human Can someone explain to me what is meant by a soulless creature falling in love? Doesn't the ability to fall in love (rather than experiencing mere sexual attraction) kind of imply having a soul already, in one way or the other? Shinobu 02:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Myths aren't supposed to make sense, or Thetis would have held Achilles normally when she bathed him instead of holding him by the heel and swinging him around in the water... Kariteh 18:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Easy: Obviously, you can fall in love without a soul, so there is no implication made whatsoever..... OR, alternately, it's a big hoax, and Undines can't actually get a soul that way. Whichever you believe is up to you, I suppose.  :)  -JC 03:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The first picture
Can anyone see it? I can't for some reason. I tried clearing my Internet cache but the image still doesn't show. Strange.Kariteh 14:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)