Talk:Elias Abuelazam/Archive 1

What's this?
"Elias is a Greek, Biblical name. Abuelazam was "well known" in Ramle's Christian community". Why do we have this in the article? Removing for now per WP:BRD RomaC  TALK 23:52, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the first sentence is unnecessary, it tells us nothing about the subject, just the etymology of his name. The rest is fine, it tells us about his background. TomCat4680 (talk) 23:58, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Tom, yes. Well you can put it back in if you like but we already say Abuelazam is from Ramle, how does saying he was "well known" in Ramle provide background or improve the article? It seems a way to sneak in that he is Christian, as you note above, do we really want to get into his religion? RomaC  TALK 00:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ADD: I see it's already mentioned he's "Christian Arab" in the sentence before. Religion and ethnicity right at the top. RomaC  TALK 00:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Suspect's ethnicity
If this article mentions the fact that this suspect is an Arab, then a similar article about Samuel Sheinbein needs to mention the fact that he is a Jew. You can't treat two Israelis differently simply because one is an Arab and the other isn't.

Also, the article on Samuel Sheinbein needs to be expanded to discuss the details. This article is already longer than the article on Samuel Sheinbein and it hasn't even been 13 years since the case was made public, just a couple of days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.36.80 (talk) 11:01, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

On the other hand, why do other Wikipedia entries about individuals do contain ethnicity or religion details? Why is it mentioned in Bernard Madoff's page that he is Jewish, for example? And does the fact it is mentioned make it offensive in any way? No. My take is that pages about individuals may contain such informative details without it being considered offensive, since it's just factual. I can't see a reason why it shouldn't be mentioned that Samuel Sheinbein is Jewish. He is. It's a fact. Would have made more sense to me to just add this element to Sheibein's page then to delete references to Abuelazam's Christianity or to the fact he's Arab. When people hear "Israel", most of them think "Jewish". I think this aspect makes it even more relevant and worth-mentioning that he, in fact, isn't Jewish. I don't know. To me it seems like someone just doesn't like these details published. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.218.163.208 (talk) 14:26, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * His religion isn't why he's notable, it's his crimes. The Genesee County Prosecutor was asked yesterday about his religion and he didn't even know what it was. TomCat4680 (talk) 15:00, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

It is really very simple - when one hears "Israeli citizen," then the obvious assumption is that the person is Jewish. I myself am Jewish and an Israeli citizen and for the first day assumed that this was the case. Along with hundreds of haters on message boards on the CNN sound off page and elsewhere. I agree that ethnicity has nothing to do with the crime. but then either does his citizenship. if you are including that he is an Israeli, then it should be included (as I have edited) that he is Arab. Sheinbein is Israeli and the assumption that he is Jewish in that case happens to be correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.183.25.75 (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The point is, there needs to be consistency.


 * TomCat, in Israel Judaism is treated as an ethnicity and as a religion. It's a strange concept, but that's how Israel sees it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.36.80 (talk) 20:08, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Religion and ethncity can be included in all BLP articles if the right references support it. As a service to the anonymous writer, I have just added it to the article on Samuel Sheinbein. 01:05, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Religion and ethncity can be included in all BLP articles if the right references support it**

Define "right".

Don't do it as a service to me, do it as a service to your credibility and to Wikipedia's alleged integrity. What you added to the Sheinbein article is that he attended a Jewish day school. Attending a school and growing up in a "Christian Arab" family are two different things.

Do you suppose the Sheinbein article could use a few mugshots, some court photos and four or five extra paragraphs? I'd be more than happy to be as conscientious a contributor to the Sheinbein article as all the other contributors have been on this article.

The Son of Sam article doesn't mention the fact that he's Jewish. Why is that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.36.80 (talk) 11:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Son of Sam is another article that falls into the serial killer category. It's interesting that there is no mention in the entire article that Berkowitz is Jewish, but here at this article Abuelazam's Arab-ness is being pushed into the top of the article, and his Israeli nationality has been relegated to outside the lead. See also Sirhan Sirhan, where his being Palestinian is mentioned twice in the article's first three lines. Might there be some inconsistancies at work? RomaC  TALK 14:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * You guys are focusing way too much on where he's from instead of what he (allegedly) did. We need to work on expanding the "Crimes", "Investigation", and "Arrests" sections, the reasons he's actually in the news. TomCat4680 (talk) 16:45, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Dates
The dates in this article are unclear. Month and day are listed, but the year is not there, creating confusion about what happened when. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.39.117.89 (talk) 21:36, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * All of the events happened in 2010. I added this information for clarity. TomCat4680 (talk) 21:49, 1 August 2011 (UTC)