Talk:Elizabeth Arden

deleted
I deleted the edit of 12:59, 17 August 2005 by Anonymous user 195.194.74.112. that says she was born England. She is documented by many sources as born in Canada, including the Elizaberth Arden Inc. corporate website here. - Ted Wilkes 21:03, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for having this page about Elizabeth Arden, she was and still is very inspiring.

Place of birth query
There is some argument about where Elizabeth Arden was actually born. There is some evidence that she was actually born in Hayle, Cornwall, UK where she was the daughter of Mr Graham, a local chemist. She is said to have emegrated with her parents to Canada when a young child. She may have assumed Cannadian nationality for commercial reasons.

Comments appreciated.

Dave


 * She was born in Hayle, Cornwall, UK in 1884. Source - a book called "Cornwall & The Isles of Scilly". Author Rita Tregellas Pope.  Publisher Hunter Publishing Inc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.224.96 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
 * See the section "Fact checking", in which this issue was discussed. By the way, the source you provide is in no way reliable - it is a travel guide, for which fact checking is rather weak. (See Google Books entry). Mind  matrix  17:46, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Fact checking
I have a source that indicates the following: This seems to conflict with information currently in the article. However, the article states she moved to New York at the age of 30, which implies 1908 given the date of birth indicated. Does anybody have references for what's cited? The only thing not in dispute of the above data is that she moved to NY in 1908.
 * Arden was born in 1884 (in Woodbridge, not UK)
 * she had four brothers and one sister
 * she moved to Toronto at the age of 18 (in 1892), and New York at 24 (in 1908)

Second, is the phrase "In 1915 she married Thomas J. Lewis, a banker, thus becoming an American citizen." correct. Is (or was) American citizenship automatically conferred upon marriage, or must one apply for it after marriage? I thought it was the latter. Mind matrix  15:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * What is your source? According to Arden's website, "Elizabeth Arden was originally named Florence Nightingale Graham, born in Canada in 1878 ... [she] grew up with her father, sisters and brother." Plural sisters, singular brother. -- Dragonfiend 16:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * My source is the City of Vaughan archives. Specifically, the bulletin "Notable Vaughan Natives" which I believe was released in 1992. It also names the brother who lived in NYC as William. Mind  matrix  19:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've found a "Dates & facts" article in the Hamilton Spectator from December 28, 2004 that says "Dec. 31, 1884 -- Elizabeth Arden, beautician and cosmetics manufacturer, was born Florence Nightingale Graham in Woodbridge, Ont. After training as a nurse, Graham went to New York in 1907 and opened the Elizabeth Arden beauty salon on Fifth Avenue in 1910." Also, The New York Daily News wrote on November 1, 2000, "The Elizabeth Arden, who was born Florence Nightingale Graham in Canada either in 1878 or 1884, opened a Fifth Avenue beauty salon in 1910." I've also found a Toronto Star stroy from May 17, 1986 which says, "In later years, Florence was always rather vague about her age but it appears she was born on Dec. 31, 1884." The International Herald Tribune wrote on April 22, 2003, "Baptized Florence Nightingale Graham in 1878, she never admitted her real age. (She famously said, 'I've lied about it so often I can't even remember the date myself!')" Obviously we'll need to address this somehow. -- Dragonfiend 19:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I may visit the Vaughan archive if I get a chance (I read the bulletin in a library, not at the archive itself). Perhaps that has some genealogical information about her. Excellent work on finding those sources, and it appears that now even the date she moved to NYC of 1908 is in question. Sigh. I'm going to think about this for a few days. Mind  matrix  21:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Elizabeth Arden was born in Hayle Cornwall in 1884.This is common knowledge in Cornwall and in several cornish books.Ask Google to search for ELIZABETH ARDEN CORNWALL for further conformation Nessa938 17:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I did that search using several search engines, and no such fact revealed itself. The only results I got were those for businesses selling Arden cosmetics. Further, something that is common knowledge by word of mouth which is contradicted by many reliable archival sources generally won't be accepted. You're going to have to produce specific citations for this claim. The only link I found worth mentioning is this one, but it cites a book which is not mentioned anywhere else on the internet, making that source rather suspect.  Mind  matrix  21:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Birth date
The article says she was born in 1878 but the photo of her grave's footsone says 1877. Handicapper (talk) 13:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Elizabeth Arden's inscription reads only "Elizabeth N Graham 1966"--no year of birth. However, she shares the footstone (graves can be double depth in that section of Sleepy Hollow Cemetery) with Lillian Graham (1877-1961). SHC (talk) 01:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

In view of the confusion in the sources as to her age I went to the original documents.

I think this is enough to change the date in the article. עדירל (talk) 22:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC) ( my nickname reads "Adiral")
 * This is a birth certificate issued in June 1933 based on her brother's statement as a witness. It gives 1881.
 * This record of the 1891 census of Canada, see line 25 on page 16 for the father and lines 1-5 on page 17 for the children, gives her age as 9, which means she was born 1881.
 * This record of the 1881 census of Canada, lines 12-16 on page 5, lists her family without her. A strong indication she was not born yet in 1881.

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Company
The company should have a separate article, it is notable in its own right, and stuff after the death of the person, about the company, shouldn't be in this article. 76.66.192.73 (talk) 08:30, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Personal life
I read in the german Wiki that Elizabeth Arden's first marriage was a fictitious marriage because she was much more interested in women. If she was a lesbian, it could be mentioned when writing about her marriage. If she wasn't, the german wiki should delete this sentence. Ah - I think I'll write on the discussion side in german wiki too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.22.5.40 (talk) 10:12, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I wondered how long it would be before the rainbow flag would be raised above her sepulchre. Good old Wikipedia. Anyone dead who can’t argue will be labelled as anything. Assertion and speculation = fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:300A:E600:1C0C:32C2:7BBF:CE11 (talk) 09:27, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Biography
How could she have dropped out of school in 1884 if she was born the last day of that year? Can anyone explain that? 12.41.204.3 (talk) 15:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Innovations
Whoever wrote the "Innovations" section was being pretty partisan, don't you think? I'll make a note and see if I can find time to come back and do some editing. It's a little embarassing -- "some cheap shampoos"?

Slothmorse (talk) 14:24, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Lack of citations
I'm trimming this article. The majority of the article lists no sources, apart from "Famous Firsts of Scottish Americans" and "Frommer's Guide to Toronto," both of which are used for a brief paragraph at the beginning. The majority of the article has absolutely no other citations. It's hard to believe there are no biographies or Arden. Some credible source must be foundCatherinejarvis (talk) 19:56, 30 December 2012 (UTC)