Talk:Elizabeth Hall (New Blaine, Arkansas)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no objection. --  tariq abjotu  13:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Elizabeth Lodge 215 F & → Elizabeth Hall (New Blaine, Arkansas) – Article was moved to current title without discussion. Elizabeth Hall is the more accurate name for the building (it's what is used repeatedly in the text of the cited Arkansas Preservation article on the building). There is a cemetery next to it (and directly associated with it) that is known as the Elizabeth Hall Cemetery. While "Elizabeth Lodge 215, F & AM" is used in the NRHP listing (it gives "Elizabeth Hall" as an alternative)... that name is more accurately applied to the local Masonic chapter that meets in the building. Distinguishing between the two prevents potential confusion. Blueboar (talk) 22:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Move it. I would be happy with "Elizabeth Hall (New Blaine, Arkansas)" but am open to other names too if they are used by other sources. The most important thing is to get rid of the current name, which is bafflingly unreadable, and which will never be expected - or searched for - by readers. I cannot fathom how any competent editor could choose such an awful title. bobrayner (talk) 19:40, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

built by prison labor?
First let me say that I think the article is overall fine, and while I would prefer it be located at the "Elizabeth Lodge 215 F & A M" name documented in the Arkansas website linked, i don't care terribly much and the "Elizabeth Hall" name is also okay (and yes it is also documented as valid, at that website).

But the recent edits are getting my attention anyhow. Possibly too-flowery language, like the just-added assertion that the building was built by the Masonic "brethren" of the lodge, seem unencyclopedic. And then i notice the source states that land and lumber was donated by Masonic members of the lodge, but about the construction, states: "Construction was carried out under the supervision of the New Blaine sheriff, E. N. Griffeth." Actually, I am guessing what that means is that the building was built by prison labor! Once it occurs to me, i am pretty sure that it what is meant, that the language used is "code" for explaining that. Think about Paul Newman and Cool Hand Luke. -- do ncr  am  16:29, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * FYI... "Brethren" is the term used by most fraternal orders (Masons, Elks, Odd Fellows, etc.) when referring to their members. I am not sure how it could be seen as "unencyclopedic"... Hell, the word Fraternity means Brotherhood in latin. If anything I would say it is overly encyclopedic (as opposed to the more prosaic term "Members").
 * As for the idea that the physical work might have been carried out by convict labor... an interesting possibility that we should explore further. However, we do need more than our own supposition to mention it in the article. I think your "reading between the lines" makes sense, but we would need to substantiate. Blueboar (talk) 18:16, 21 August 2013 (UTC)