Talk:Elizabeth Hamilton, 1st Baroness Hamilton of Hameldon

Untitled
I have changed the entry to show her Ducal title by marriage as she was at no time known by her own barony so to list her only under that is peverseAlci12 11:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Maiden name
Below are a few links that indicate the possibility that Eliazbeth was more commonly known by her maiden name: Daytrivia (talk) 01:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Dictionary of National Biography. Vol. XXIII
 * Not evidence. It was DNB editorial policy to list all peers by surname, and there is no question that she was better known as Elizabeth Gunning (which was her formal name when she was a belle) than as Elizabeth Campbell (which never was; the Duke of Argyll survived her. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Three Generations of Fascinating Women: And Other Sketches from Family History footnote 3, p.131
 * Note the chapter title: More about the Gunnings.
 * George Selwyn; His Letters and His Life. footnote 2, p.62
 * As the note goes on to say "generally known as the Duchess of Hamilton".
 * 
 * Painted 1751, when she was Elizabeth Gunning. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 
 * This is an oddity. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your detailed feedback. And since I posted this topic I have had several similar discussions with PeterSymonds at where, for the sake of wiki consistency, I have agreed (see: ) to make every effort to modify articles that I have created and may yet start. Although I am not totally convinced I am slowly coming around. The paintings for example are contemporary and yet they give her maiden name along with the title? Again thanks. Daytrivia (talk) 01:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You have no evidence, however, that the names of the pictures are contemporary, and the Gavin Hamilton one cannot be: it was (according to the page linked) painted before her first marriage; if your article is correct, before she met her first husband; nor can the Reynolds, which was painted before her second marriage, and gives her both titles. In both cases, surely, they are named by the gallery. The fundamental problem is that she was Elizabeth Gunning, she was Duchess of Hamilton, and she was Duchess of Argyll, and she is still known by all three. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * For discussion of a fundamentally similar problem, see Talk:Anne Isabella Byron, Baroness Byron; I don't think the peerage in her own right should automatically trump, but I'm not sure what the solution is. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow! Thanks for the link to the discusson about Lady Byron. The incredible amount of research and communication dedicated towards getting things right or as close to right as possible is wonderful. Daytrivia (talk) 16:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, not that much; I have a decent library to hand, and was willing to look at four books to find out. But the point here is: what is the best of the several choices here? I'm really not sure. The paintings are worth considering because they are present usage of how to make clear who she is. Unfortunately, we have managed to talk ourselves out such forms as Elizabeth, Duchess of Hamilton, which may be ambiguous anyway. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

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