Talk:Elizabeth Smart/Archive 1

hay
thatz said for the girl she was kidnaped when she was only about 11 years old and missed her childhood and had 2 kids with that man i dont know noone who would do that to a girl some guys are just sick —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.78.198.67 (talk) 16:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * She certainly suffered greatly, but she was kidnapped at 14 and did not have any children. ——Rich jj (talk) 19:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * RE 'thatz', I think you have her confused with Jaycee Duggard who has a page too at Kidnapping of Jaycee Lee Dugard Wombat24 (talk) 07:21, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * "Thatz" is not a sentence mate. If this guy is an editor then Wikipedia is in big trouble. SpencerCollins (talk) 09:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The theory is wikipedia has enough editors that truly bizarre ones do not make a large impact. Although there is a reason why a review of some articles revision histories will show multiple "vandalism removed" tags, and in turn there is a reason why some articles are locked.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Strange tag
She is listed as a victim of "religiously motivated violence", rather than a victim of violence against women.

As far as I know nothing has been proven, or even alleged, about religious motivations for Mitchell's action. (In fact, as both he and Smart were members of the mormon church, I'm not sure how this could be described as "religiously motivated"). However, Smart *has* alleged that she was repeatedly raped by Mitchell, which if true would make her a victim of violence against women and children, and a victim of sexual violence.

Wouldn't this seem to be a more fitting tag for this article? -User: Kasreyn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.254.15.198 (talk) 23:07, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, his wacko religion was a tortured offshoot of Mormonism, it was a symptom of who he was, not the reason behind it.Altairantares (talk) 03:22, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Mitchell left the mormon church in the mid nineties and was then excommunicated anyway in 2001 after coming to the attention of local LDS leaders. So I don't think he was an offshoot of Mormonism but he rather had or tried to start his own religion.


 * Based on what came out of the competency hearing in Nov the evidence is rather overwhelming that Mitchell was motivated by his religious belief system. The question though is how that belief system affects his competency to stand trial but Judge Dale A. Kimball has recently ruled him competent based on observations by hospital staff, the NY forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welnerand and especially Smart's testimony. However I'd agree that the "victim of violence" tag is a better fit but when talking about Mitchell the "religiously motivated violence" tag does fit him rather well in my opinion. Wombat24 (talk) 07:36, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Religious violence does not have to be motivated by opposition to someone else's religion. In this case, Smart's religion is largely not material. The material thing is that Mitchell claimed he had a religious duty to abduct Smart and others to be addition wives.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Note that the first thing that Mitchell and his wife did to Elizabeth on the same night of the abduction was to "seal" her to Mitchell in a mormon wedding ceremony. To ignore this clear and essential aspect of the story is just being in denial about the role of religion in this story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.201.163 (talk) 18:39, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Mitchell's religious beliefs are described in ample detail in other articles related to the kidnapping and Mitchell. Those articles are linked. That is sufficient. Cresix (talk) 18:43, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It is absurd to ignore the fact that both Smart and Mitchell were born and raised in the Mormon faith and tradition, to eliminate those facts and the Mormon wedding ceremony as an essential part of the abduction is not telling the whole story. It might be uncomfortable, it might be taboo, but in the end, it's outright censorship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.26.201.163 (talk) 23:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing is being ignored. Will you please read my comments above. Read the article and click the links related to the kidnapping and Mitchell. You will find lots of information about Mitchell's religious beliefs. Cresix (talk) 00:04, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Religious motivated violence does not have to be "violence motivated by religious difference". In the case of Mitchell he was motivated by what he felt were his religious duties, which he claimed required him to physically force himself on Ms. Smart. It should also be noted that Mitchell had been excommunicated in the early 1990s for issues not directly related to this incident. He was a follower of the politics of Bo Gritz, who was excommunicated for advocating non-payment of taxes, and his seeking for and on a limited basis practicing polygamy prior to the Smart kipnapping might have gotten him ex-communicated if he had not been already. Since he was a vagrant that is a might, since without an address it is hard to know who would have been his bishop to initiate such proceedings, but Mitchell was clearly at odds with the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Still it is a different type of violence than Ervil LeBaron's killing of rival polygamous leaders. There are some similarities to Dan Lafferty though.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:06, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Redirect
According to http://stats.grok.se/, Elizabeth A. Smart is visited almost 20 times more than Elizabeth Smart (Canadian author); therefore, an initial redirect to the former for searched for "Elizabeth Smart" seems prudent. Accordingly, I have modified the page from a dab to a redirect. —Eustress talk 23:07, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Who are Paige Taufer and James Taufer ?
Someone just added (in the 'personal' section) that Elizabeth Smart is their cousin. I can't find who they are with a Google-search. 76.217.161.217 (talk) 05:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Unsourced, therefore I removed it per WP:BLP. If someone can find a source, they can be re-inserted. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 06:17, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Wrong link for Chris Stewart?
I believe the link to Chris Stewart, coauthor with Elizabeth Smart of "My Story" is wrong. The link goes to Rep. Christopher Stewart's page.71.178.237.98 (talk) 21:11, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * It's not wrong. He was a popular LDS writer who got elected.  This article shows the coauthor is indeed the same guy as the politician: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/elizabeth-smart-publish-story-abduction-article-1.1207348  17:38, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

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External links modified
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I have just modified 3 external links on Elizabeth Smart. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120122223458/http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/20/10201087-former-utah-kidnapping-victim-elizabeth-smart-gets-engaged to http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/20/10201087-former-utah-kidnapping-victim-elizabeth-smart-gets-engaged
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"An" vs "the"
An Elizabeth Smart but not the Elizabeth Smart. It's really time this was addressed. ProfDEH (talk) 13:08, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by this? There are two Elizabeth Smart's on wiki. This article has a hatnote linking to the other. Please read WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY, where the tools provided show this article to be the main/primary topic for the title. If you would like to rename this article please follow the directions at Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves.-- ☾Loriendrew☽  ☏(ring-ring)  00:57, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I'm reading the criteria link - it will take a while to get my head around all that but it does look like you're right. I assumed the author of a must-read literary masterpiece could hardly be less significant than a crime victim who's built a career around the experience. I was equally amazed to discover from the article that Raleigh links to a boring city unknown outside of the USA. However I have to concede, an internet search leads almost exclusively to articles about the living person. ProfDEH (talk) 08:22, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Notablity
It has been over 2 decades since the kidnapping. How is this relevant today? She is not a celebrity and she really hasn't done anything with her life other than speak about being kidnapped. There are millions of cops and lawyers and legal experts who do more each day to protect children from abuse of all types but do not have wiki pages. What makes her relevant today? 2604:2D80:A48F:300:5D1E:F92D:2900:C690 (talk) 18:40, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * She doesn't have to be relevant today. At the time of her kidnapping, there were a lot of secondary sources, namely news broadcasts, reporting her disappearance and that's why she is notable.  The Blue  Rider  Postal horn icon.svg 08:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)