Talk:Elizabeth von Arnim

Reference O/S / Misattributed work?
Is any reference to the correctness of the inclusion of "The Ordeal of Elizabeth" available? It seems from other cursory reading that this is unsubstantitated. Thanks. Carteki (talk) 08:48, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Christine
Why is there no account of the reaction to this novel? A Englishwoman married to a German suffers problems on the outbreak of war in 1914. Everyone but the husband is a jerk. It should be discussed, in relation to her other works. 2600:100F:B13C:94C7:25DA:B45:22D9:7A73 (talk) 17:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
Who is this lady from Wiki Unused images file, who is not Bettina von Arnim, as the jpg tag suggestes, but who appears on a pre-Euro banknote, but not German new or old series? Wetman 02:27, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Whatever ...
Image talk:Chickpic2.jpg

von Arnim family
Are Elizabeth von Arnim and Bettina von Arnim related (through marriage)? If so, can anyone explain how? Thanks -- hibou 13:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Bettina's husband Ludwig Achim von Arnim was born in 1781, Elizabeth's husband Count Henning von Arnim in 1851, so there would be two or three generations between them. I don't know of any direct connection, or how widespread a family the von Arnims were. JohnCD (talk) 21:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeth's Marriage
It's a bit too simplistic to dismiss the von Arnim marriage as "incompatible." The truth is somewhat more complicated. According to Karen Usborne's biography of Elizabeth, Henning von Arnim regarded his wife as the best company and conversationalist in the world. He was definitely not her idea of an ideal husband at first, but she grew very fond of him. After his death, she missed him so much that she kept his old coat for years--although, according to E.M. Forster, the neck was "soiled by sweat." She did occasionally refer to him as The Man of Wrath, but this was a joke between them.

It's probable that the article mischaracterizes Henning von Arnim's financial difficulties. It's true he was jailed for nonpayment of debts. However, The Benefactress, which is one of Elizabeth's autobiographical novels, casts a different light on this matter. The character who is modeled on Henning von Arnim is presented with respect as an honorable person who trusted scoundrels. His experience being imprisoned is one of the most compassionate chapters Elizabeth ever wrote. She believed that business partners cheated him, and friends to whom he'd made large loans never repaid him. Younggoldchip (talk) 17:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is supposed to based on fact, not on what is written in fiction and not on what some anonymous person thinks is "probable". Her "autobiographical novels", were not documentaries of her life, they were fiction with some basis in fact. In her most famous book, "Elizabeth and her English Garden", the central theme is fiction - she didn't create a garden of any note or effort at Nassenheim. It has been said of her that she wrote about life how she would have liked it be, not necessarily how it was. Romance amongst free-thinking upper class intellectuals was complicated though. She left Henning and took the children two years before he died, although the couple didn't consider this to be a formal separation and she and three daughters were at his beside when he died. What English speakers don't seem to realise is that Count von Arnim was a notable person in his own right, and there is quite a lot of biographical information written about him in German. 94.139.0.246 (talk) 15:10, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia is indeed supposed to be based on fact. This calls into question your claim, stated as fact, that "She didn't create a garden of any note or effort at Nassenheim." E.M. Forster is the only person I've ever heard of who had this opinion. Forster was a tutor to the Von Arnim children, and famously jealous of their gifted mother and her best-selling memoir, Elizabeth and Her German Garden. Unless one was Forster's psychiatrist, it would be impossible to state with certainty that his motive for this unsupported misstatement was envy. But that leaves open the question, what else could it have been? You should also read Karen Usborne's biography of Elizabeth, which gives her contemporaries and intimates' impressions of her marriage to Von Arnim. Applying the assumptions of 2020 to a 1900 marriage has no value. As for the compassionate chapter she wrote, in The Benefactress, about a heroic character's undeserved financial troubles, which mirror Von Arnim's, it's noteworthy--perhaps even extraordinary-- because Elizabeth is not known for compassion toward her male characters. Yet, here it is. Younggoldchip (talk) 15:19, 21 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Just to add that she met Henning in Italy (some sources say in Florence, others Rome). I wonder if this highly romantic episode in her life was some inspiration for E.M. Forster (a former tutor to her children) having his main characters in a Room with a View meeting in Florence. Also, in that book some of the characters were reading a romantic novel by a lady novelist, which is mocked. I wonder if von Arnim was in some way the inspiration for this. 94.139.0.246 (talk) 08:41, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It's very likely that the lady novelist whom E.M. Forster mocked in A Room With A View was based on von Arnim. He was bitterly, relentlessly envious of her success as a writer, and seems to have gotten his revenge where he could.
 * Younggoldchip (talk) 15:49, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Alice Cholmondely
Note that there was another writer who published under the name Alice Cholmondely. Alice Mary Egerton, died 27 November 1868, married Reginald Cholmondely on 17 October 1867. Two posthumus books of poetry were published, both edited by her husband. - one, simply Poems by A.C., as Alice Mary Cholmondely in 1871 and Emblems, as Alice Cholmondeley in 1875.94.139.27.74 (talk) 09:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)