Talk:Ella Fitzgerald/Archive 1

Hdvcbdnbdvdjdvdhdvd
The photo is titled Hdvcbdnbdvdjdvdhdvd and I don't know how to change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.107.119.207 (talk) 16:45, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Untitled
I find it amusing that after reading this page there are comments questioning the use of her history within the contense and people asking about her race, these questions seem irrelevant to me. After I read this, I found her life to be interesting and very insiring and I'll be makling more of an effort to listent to her music now more than ever. What a legacy!

Alleged Third Marriage
I can't access the site right now, but could someone check out either www.ellafitzgerald.com (the site that represents her estate after she died) or another reputable source to see if Ella Fitzgerald actually married a Norweigan from Oslo? This is mentioned in the Personal Life section and uses a previous citation for its source. It sounds suspiciously-slanderous and I am unable to find anyone else on the Web to confirm it. If someone could either find an actual source or delete this section due to a factual error, that'd be great! -MarkJerue — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkJerue (talk • contribs) 02:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It's mentioned in the Nicholson book. And it's not slandering her to say that she was taken in by a conniving jerk. That can happen to anyone. It's no reflection on her. --Rosekelleher (talk) 12:23, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

last concert
When/where was her last public performance? What was the last song she sang?


 * Good question. I have video footage of her performing Too Close for Comfort in 1989 (at Sammy Davis Jr 60th Anniversary in showbiz concert). She sounded great, but had to helped out on stage by Michael Jackson and Eddie Murphy. Her legs were amputated in 1993 - so I assume no more gigs after that. Cheers, User:Musicmaker


 * That's interesting, I didn't know that she appeared there. Mikeys incredible Ella website lists an Ella performance from as late as July, 1992 . Late Ella is still quite well worth discovering, her sense of defiance is quite beautiful. Gareth E Kegg

Gay Icon Project
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:36, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Distracting blank spaces
Formatting that encases the framed table of contents in text, in just the way a framed map or image is enclosed within the text, is now available: in the HTML does the job.

Blank space opposite the ToC, besides being unsightly and distracting, suggests that there is a major break in the continuity of the text, which may not be the case. Blanks in page layout are voids and they have meanings to the experienced reader. The space betweeen paragraphs marks a brief pause between separate blocks of thought. A deeper space, in a well-printed text, signifies a more complete shift in thought: note the spaces that separate sub-headings in Wikipedia articles.

A handful of thoughtless and aggressive Wikipedians revert the "TOCleft" format at will. A particularly aggressive de-formatter is User:Ed g2s

The reader may want to compare versions at the Page history. --Wetman 20:15, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Red links
Red links are not necessarily bad. Rather than de-wikifying red-linked phrases, consider creating an article about them. That's how Wikipedia grows and improves.--chris.lawson 23:25, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Birthdate
Her death certificate, as seen on findadeath.com clearly states that she was born in 1918. Why argue with a legal document?

The definitive biography of Ella by the English music journalist Stuart Nicholson discovered her 1917 birthdate to be correct. Since her death, virtually every resource on Ella has reflected this change. Gareth E Kegg 18:42, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

It is not so convincing! If you take a look at her grave, it states clearly that she was born in 1918! Her family members would not make it wrong, isn't it?--218.103.232.178 05:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Ella had very few family members at the end of her life, and was quite secretive about many aspects of her childhood. Many people in the entertainment industry have birth dates that are shrouded in mystery. Gareth E Kegg 09:16, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Her Social Security death record (059-12-2595) says 1917.--Fallout boy 18:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

When Stuart Nicholson was researching and writing his biography of Ella, he was a member of The Ella Fitzgerald Music Appreciation Society (now defunct) of which I was co-founder with Wilfred Johnson (USA) and Michel Macaire (France). Unlike previous writers, Stuart did not rely on what had already been written about Ella and went back to primary sources whenever possible, interviewing those who actually knew Ella and searching for original records. Because I was UK Secretary of the Society, Stuart gave me proof of Ella's real birthday in the form of a copy of a letter from the State Registrar of Richmond, Virginia which says "... our records indicate that she was born Ella Jane Fitzgerald on April 25, 1917, in Warwick County (which is now Newport News, Virginia), to William Fitzgerald and Tempie Williams Fitzgerald." I also have a copy of the County Census dated January 17, 1920 which gives Ella's age as two years and eight months, William's age as 35 and Tempie's age as 25. Manuel Gosano, Bristol, UK, 20 January 2007

I read in the book "sing me a swing song and let me dance" from Jim Haskins, that Ella Fitzgerald was born 1918. It could be a typing or a translating mistake. The book is from 1992 and not actual.

What's about her biological father ? I don't find anything about him.--AndreaMimi (talk) 18:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I search the page "Find a Grave" and there is Ellas Birthyear also 1918. But can I trust this source or not ? --AndreaMimi (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No, see the above discussion. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 08:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I see. Then I take 1917 as her birthyear and give the resoucres to the professor, if he ask me about this.

I wish you a nice evening, Gareth E Kegg.

CU --AndreaMimi (talk) 17:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Comedy References
I have restored cultural references from 3rd Rock, Fresh Prince, and Family Guy that were deleted. While they are silly (and some a little strange), they are nonetheless cultural references which show Ms. Fitzgerald's impact on American culture. If you feel that these references should be separated from the tribute albums, perhaps a separate section for those albums should be added. 68.43.45.250 17:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC) haha funny —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.63.230.4 (talk) 20:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Dark Tone in the first part
I just read the article, and it seems to me that the first part is in a too dark tone for a biographical article... User:84.72.92.144

The story of Ella's early years may be quite dark, but not to tell them would be to over look the tragedy in her life, and would discard an essential part of the Ella Fitzgerald 'legend' Gareth E Kegg 23:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I read that Fitzgerald was abused (beaten) at the home she was sent to as well. That's why she ran away. She also said later in life that the suffering she'd endured brought depth to her music. Why is this not stated in the "early years" section? It seems very important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.105.146 (talk) 19:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Personal life - marriages
I transplanted some text from Ray Brown (musician) because, oddly, he was not mentioned here as her husband. The article states she was married twice or three times but there is only information about Brown and the alleged secret marriage. Can a subject matter expert add information about the third gentleman? Also, Brown's article states that the two divorced in 1952 and this article states 1953. Which is correct? Otto4711 00:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I readded the personal life section as it was before it was mangled, Stuart Nicholson's biography on Ella states 1953 as her divorce date, so I'll go with that. Gareth E Kegg 01:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Quotations
The quotes sections ought to be properly sourced and shifted to Wikiquote in accordance with WP:NOT. --Muchness 11:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Erroneous rv
Apologies, done in error. Mutt Lunker 16:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Collaborations with Bing Crosby
For the album, "Bing Crosby With Ella Fitzgerald & Peggy Lee," Ella sang 25 songs with Bing Crosby. There is the possibility that this could be 2--or three--separate albums combined for re-release (the Christmas song seem out of place), but I think that the songs, along with her tv appearances with him, merit his inclusion in the Collaborations section. ~ 19 May 2007


 * These are radio recordings, not studio recordings intended for an album release. Perhaps we should start a Radio section? Gareth E Kegg 12:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ColePorterSongbook.jpg
Image:ColePorterSongbook.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Legends
I just watched the episode about Ella in the Legends series on BBC Four. They said some things that aren't mentioned here like that her mother died of a heart attack, not in a traffic accident. And like how she used to have it written in to her contracts when she sang in the still segregated Southern States that her concerts mustn't be segregated. Also that she used a lot of her money to support projects for disadvantaged youngsters so that they have a better start in life than she did. See review in The Guardian -- SteveCrook (talk) 07:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've reinstated the correct death of Ella's mother, after it was changed so many times. The segregation boycott was more of Norman Granzs idea, I think we should have an expanded section on their relationship. The disadvantaged youngsters info should be here...Gareth E Kegg (talk) 16:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Citations & References
See Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the  tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

THANK YOU ELLA FITZGERALD21:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)21:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)CARLAVIL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.183.128.246 (talk) ella fitzergerald was a heart singer and sings her heart out so props to ella fitzergerald !!!!!!!!!!! by lovely in your eyez

Ella Fitzgerald droped out of school when she was 15 years old and in the 10th grade. Her friend said she was born in 1920 Fitzgerald said she was born in 1917 to get into show buiness eariler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.127.132.144 (talk) 19:38, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

So, besides all the ridiculous postings above, I think many of the quotations within the article took out words without properly indicating it. If you do that within a direct quotation, you should put it in square brackets. The words removed should also be replaced by an ellipsis and not 4 or however many periods are in there. Someone should check out all of these direct quotations and see if that's how the speakers are quoted or if things were really omitted. Mabsal (talk) 06:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Infobox photo
I love the photo in the infobox, but --am I not right in believing that Wikipedia policy is to show the most recent available free-image in the infobox, and then, in the biography pages, gravitate from the earliest one on down chronologically with the dates in the text, ending again, with another of the last photos? I add photos to Wikipedia; these days I'm easily spending about 1/4 of all my time with it in finding, (and convincing) photographers to release their pics to us through Creative Commons to Wikimedia Commons. I've had several excellent photos taken from the infoboxes because they were not the most recent. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 16:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Bits that don't make sense to me
I'm making some minor changes right now, but the last paragraph in "The Decca years" section doesn't make sense to me. Can someone familiar with the subject clarify? Mabsal (talk) 03:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC) Also, in the Verve section there is a sentence about the booking being instrumental to her success, but fails to clarify exactly why that was. This should be expanded if this tidbit is true, or the sentence removed. Mabsal (talk) 05:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC) Another: In the Later life section, there is no criteria given for why the Pablo records were her "best ever," especially considering the list of problems listed right after! I mean, did they sell the best regardless or what? Mabsal (talk) 05:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Pan American Racism inicident
I just found this In 1954 Ella was forbidden to come to Australia in Honolulu becuase she was African American http://digitalvaults.org/#/detail/3473/?record=3473 I can not judge whether this is important to this article Wakelamp (talk) 12:12, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Death of Ella's mother.
The definitive biography of Ella Fitzgerald (ISBN 9780575400320, Pg 14.) by Stuart Nicholson states "Then, without warning in early 1932, the hardworking Tempe had a heart attack and died suddenly. She was just thirty-eight. Ella has claimed that her mother died from injuries sustained when trying to save a child from being run down by a car. Neither Charles Gulliver nor Annette Miller (Ella's childhood friends) has any knowledge of this"

I am wary of relying on the "official" biographies of celebrities. In further credit to Nicholson, it was he who established that Ella was born in 1917, not 1918, this has now become commonly accepted. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Recordings with Chick Webb's orchestra
The final sentence included a partial quote of the source (the New York Times obit, still available today) but added an implication about Ella's first recording that the source did not (it was a novelty, but not 'disposable pop fluff'. I've removed that part and replaced it with a more complete and representative quotation and rewritten the section a little.  Some of the words are only the opinion of whoever wrote the obituary, but they are what they are.  Twistlethrop (talk) 16:17, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Revisited this and the source, and rewrote the last sentence to include mention of the source and improve obvious NPOV.Twistlethrop (talk) 21:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Citation on range
Added citation from NYT obit on her vocal range, but it documents the breadth of the range in octaves, not the specific low to high notes. Some music student get out there and find one more specific, please. Here.it.comes.again (talk) 23:12, 19 March 2013 (UTC) I

Lead section
One should not tag the "lead section is not good" and not put a note here to say what you do not like about it. Is it just too short for you? What do you think is missing? Please reply, or the tag will be removed. Telecine Guy 20:46, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I added the tag. I'd like to clarify that the tag is not "lead section is not good", the current lead is good writing but it needs to be expanded. The lead is far too short for an article of this length and does not provide an adequate overview of her career. The lead is four sentences, and does not really say much. If you read the lead, you will find out she had a three octave voice and a brief description of her vocal abilities, was a notable interpreter of the Great American Songbook, sold 40 million copies of her 70-plus albums, and some of her awards. No mention of collaborations with Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington, no mention of hit singles, no mention of her film and television roles, no mention of Verve or Decca Record labels. There's a lot that can and should be added. I'm not really a writer, and I'm not too familiar with her career, so I have not attempted to expand the lead yet. I have sourced a lot of the information in the article though. Let's work together and improve this article. Melonkelon (talk) 21:35, 6 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the reply, very helpful, I thought you may have an idea on what you did not like (missing) from the lead. Telecine Guy 15:58, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Lead section assignment
I further expanded the lead for an assignment part of this course. I made sure to touch on more key points and added more content to the lead to fit the article's length. Agunth2 (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's good. I think it's definitely been improved. It's important to note that her surname should be used rather than her given name, see WP:SURNAME. Also, per WP:CONTRACTIONS, contractions should be avoided (use was not instead of wasn't). Melonkelon (talk) 22:47, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism
Seems like this page is always showing up in my watchlist for vandalism. Can it be semi-protected? Rosekelleher (talk) 11:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Nicholson
Stuart Nicholson is not Stuart Nicholson, the former professional footballer, he is the Visiting Professor at Leeds College of Music who has "written seven books on jazz which have been translated into thirteen languages. They include biographies of Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington and critically acclaimed overviews of jazz that include Jazz-Rock: A History, Jazz: The 1980s Resurgence, Is Jazz Dead (Or Has It Moved to a New Address)? and Jazz and Culture in a Global Age" :. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:16, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Re: Tributes and legacy section
A template in this section reads, "This section is missing information about the impacts and influences of Ms Fitzgerald and her music on other artists, on the later history of music, and on society." I'm unconvinced such information belongs in an encyclopedia which tries to be impartial by concentrating on facts. I don't know why it is necessary or desirable to include such grandiose, subjective, and debatable speculation as "imacts[sic]" and "influences[sic]" "of Ms[sic] Fitzgerald and her music on other artists, on the later[sic] history of music, and on society." That sounds like an imprecise invitation to write long opinions. That's the opposite of Wikipedia's modest purpose. Vmavanti (talk) 17:49, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * , thank you. I entirely agree and especialy this article does not need to be defaced with an unneeded maintenace tag. I am removing it; if anyone wants to add appropriate content, it is permissible to attempt to improve any article; please just do not tag. Thanks and all the best,  Fylbecatulous talk 20:02, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Introduction
I noticed that the introduction mentions her "horn-like" improvisational abilities "particularly in her scat singing". I don't mean to split hairs here, but since her voice was her primary instrument, wouldn't it make more sense to omit the word "particularly"? LMJohnston116 (talk) 14:36, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It highlights improvisation during scat singing over (let's call it) non-scat singing. EddieHugh (talk) 21:21, 12 January 2018 (UTC)