Talk:Elogium (Star Trek: Voyager)

Requested move 25 March 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. This proposal attracted early opposition on the grounds that there was not an article on the literary genre. However, after the article Elogium (literary genre) was created, the discussion swung strongly in favor of the proposed move; the main argument was that the literary genre has enough long-term significance to prevent the Star Trek episode from being the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.The conversation was less decisive on whether the literary genre was the primary topic, however. Some participants felt that the literary genre had a strong enough claim to primary-topic-by-significance to earn the primary title, while others felt there was WP:NOPRIMARY and thus there should be a DAB at the primary title. This side of the discussion did not result in a consensus; thus, I plan to take the least intrusive option for now, which is to create a DAB at the title Elogium. No prejudice to further discussion on whether the primary title should host the DAB or the literary genre's article. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 19:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Elogium → Elogium (Star Trek: Voyager) – Elogium Alex2006 (talk) 15:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:57, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Why? —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 15:53, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Because Elogium is a Latin literary genre, and I actually don't understand why there isn't an article on this topic yet. The vast majority of the articles on Star Trek episodes have the syntax I suggested, but this one only has a redirect, so I can't move it myself. After the move I will correct all the links to the old name, I promise :-). Alex2006 (talk) 16:57, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If we have an article devoted to discussing that literary genre, then it's likely that both it and this page will be disambiguated IAW WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and the editing guideline that says  Do we have such an extant article?If we have an article that mentions or discusses that literary genre in some part, this article can benefit from a hatnote.  For example, .If neither of those situations is applicable, then I don't see the argument for moving the page.  The article's already been moved to this page once in December 2006 by  IAW the discussion at Talk:List_of_Star_Trek_episodes, and again in January 2010 by .  The editing guideline at WP:NCEPISODE also says, .  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 18:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * With developing elogium (literary genre) into an actual article, I maintain my previous suggestion here of moving this to the parenthetical (as now appropriate), and turning this into a disambiguation page.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 21:08, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's putting the cart before the horse. If you think an article should be created, make one in Draft: and once its at an acceptable level, then propose a move. We're not going to empty a primary topic location on the belief an article should exist, so oppose. -- Netoholic @ 21:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a good idea. Although I am a wikipedia Editor since 2006, and I have about 80,000 edits, I never started a draft: how can I do one? Alex2006 (talk) 21:21, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:DRAFT gives a good walk-through of the process. Alternatively, you could create a fresh article on the mainspace, but I suggested a Draft just due to the naming concerns. -- Netoholic @ 21:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I could also write an article with the title Elogium (literature), but I suspect that in the end the main topic will be this article, so we would have to do too much moving around. :-) GO for draft, thanks! I will be back in a while...Alex2006 (talk) 21:47, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose move. At the moment, the literary genre does not have a page, so there's no other Elogium to disambiguate from.  O.N.R.  (talk) 00:02, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ONR this is not how Wikipedia works - the elogium only needs a mention and content on another page for a redirect, it does not require a standalone article. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:59, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Obvious support an elogium (literary genre) is used to mean a short elegy or eulogy delivered in Latin. I see that wiktionary has other meanings, but either way a Star Trek episode is not the meaning. There is a universe outside Star Trek, doctor. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:57, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, since there is no article. I would not support a setup of disambiguation that solely links to this page, and then says "this is also a term on wiktionary". That's not Wikipedia. --Quiz shows 20:15, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Again that's not how en.wp works, but now this an article. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, you've made "elogium (literary genre)", which has one source and appears a candidate for merging into list of Latin phrases (E) or possibly list of Latin words with English derivatives. Regardless of its ultimate disposition, a hatnote here is warranted (as I mentioned above).  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 18:27, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Again you don't seem to be listening - whether a term has a standalone article or just a mention is irrelevant to WP:PT claims. But anyway, even with that said, can anyone please explain what is so terrible about (Star Trek: Voyager) on a Star Trek Voyager article when all the articles taking words that have meaning before Star Trek all have (Star Trek: Voyager) as part of the title? Isn't it actually going to help Star Trek fans? In ictu oculi (talk) 21:14, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What are we going to do with the base name?  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:08, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Anything would be an improvement to present. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:14, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hallo all, I expanded the stub that created during the discussion. I think that now you can move the articles. Sorry for not creating it with a draft as promised, but In Ictu Oculi did a nacht und nebel aktion ;-) Alex2006 (talk) 15:12, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support and I would turn Elogium into a disambiguation page for the two articles. That being said, this nomination was poorly handled. This should have done after the article on the literary genre was completed and there should have been a clear argument/rationale proposed for this suggested move. While I ultimately agree with it, I think this was done the wrong way, and I would encourage the nominator to be more mindful of this in the future. Everyone makes mistakes (including myself). Aoba47 (talk) 19:36, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment: Elogium (literary genre) now exists, which changes the basis of this discussion. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:59, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: My opinion is that "elogium (literary genre)" deserves to be the primary topic, because of criterion 2 of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (long term significance, i.e. greater enduring notability and educational value). Spock agrees with me. ;-) Alex2006 (talk) 06:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Now that the article on the literary genre exists. I am also leaning towards the genre being moved to the primary topic per longterm significance. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:39, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. But neutral on whether the genre is primary or whether a two-way DAB is best. The genre is overwhelmingly primary by significance and the Star Trek episode should not stay at the base name, but the Star Trek episode is likely to get a lot more traffic so there's a case for a DAB. Andrewa (talk) 14:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, with the literary genre as the primary topic in light of its perduring significance.  Arbitrarily0   ( talk ) 14:30, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.