Talk:Eloise Pickard Smith

DoubleGrazing's notability critique
User:DoubleGrazing - [says] I do not see anything inherently notable about [Smith]

I'd refer to these main claims at notability -
 * 1) She is the first director of arts.ca.gov, which has been a branch of CA State gov since 1976 (talked about prominently in "History" tab of that website).
 * 2) She founded California's first prison arts project, which is a branch of arts.ca.gov since 1977. (google search: california prison arts, or correction arts, or whatever related search terms are fair to check this is an accurate claim)
 * 3) She started the first art gallery on UCSC's campus, now named after her (Eloise Pickard Smith Gallery, at Cowell College.
 * 4) Santa Cruz County parks scparks.com has an award named after her (Eloise Pickard Smith Award).

As it seems best practice: leaving up your notability tag so others can discuss, consider. If any of these claims seem to go against clause that Eloise Pickard Smith is a person of note, happy to have a discussion about them. Garrett.stephens (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

DoubleGrazing's 'primary sources' critique
User:DoubleGrazing [says] all sources are primary rather than secondary

I am not seeing this.
 * 1) a Timeline of arts.ca.gov, California Arts Council timeline that name-drops Smith in its inception. That is a secondary biographical source in my understanding, unless it is 'primary' in that its arts.ca.gov talking about its own history?
 * 2) CA Governor Jerry Brown interviewed by UCLA faculty, talking about how he appointed Smith. This is a notable politician referencing Eloise's appointment as first director, so is corroboration of a historical occurrence, is this one of the ones that is "primary"?
 * 3) a Timeline of arts.ca.gov > arts in corrections tab > artsincorrections.org ... again, branch of arts.ca.gov referring to Eloise as its founder, so not Primary unless that government branch referring to a figure as its founder is Primary?
 * 4) University of California, Santa Cruz public release about an exhibit to honor the life and work of the first founder of a gallery on a campus. Secondary as a legitimate public institution talking about a figure who was instrumental in its history, no? Unless the publication is primary because the writer is publishing on UCSC website talking about her and the history of the institution so that is somehow primary?
 * 5) NPR This American Life episode on Eloise and Page... seems legit, no? That's a pretty well reputed news source by most accounts
 * 6) Santa Cruz County, CA, Parks Department names an award of excellence after her... that's not primary
 * 7) A few (4) historical news paper articles about Eloise in the Santa Cruz Sentinel, Wiki generally considers newspapers to be secondary, unless one would argue Sentinel is a tabloid, but it has been around a long time, is archived at the Santa Cruz Public Library website, etc.
 * 8) Los Angeles Daily News guest commentary referring to Eloise's influence; this is a personal commentary, but is transparent as a guest commentary for a newspaper, and is an "external reference", is not cited as a source for any of the biographical content on the page

This is what double.grazing says - "only primary sources are cited, and I don't see anything that would make this inherently notable + much of the content is unreferenced" ... I would object to this. I don't see any primary sources, so I'm not sure where that claim finds grounding. Much of content unreferenced... Any look at the page will see a reference after each clause, so I also don't know what this is referring to, unless there is a clear contest about one of the above sources lacking credibility... Would appreciate any clarification on this matter — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garrett.stephens (talk • contribs) 19:56, 16 April 2022 (UTC)