Talk:Els Segadors

Censorship in Madrid
I flagged the sentence, since there is no sourcing. It appears to be patently false.

First verse translation looks wrong to me (pero no soc català!)
I'm not certain of this (I am not Catalan, my wife is), but I am not sure the translation of the first verse is correct.

"...Endarrera aquesta gent tan ufana i tan superba.

...Drive them back, these people So conceited and so arrogant."

I would have thought that the translation for this would be more like this: "Around this people so daring and so superb"

therefore referring to the Catalan people, not their oppressors. Any ideas? Timothy Chen Allen 21:48, 2005 Jan 24 (UTC)

the way its now its the wright one, i'm catalan.

I changed the link of gencat.net to gencat.cat because this Catalan Institution changed to the last link. So they are using this now. --Jacquard2

Hello, I'm from Valencia, so I speak Catalan and i can tell you what this means exactly. First of all, sorry for my english, because although i'm a student, i'm not still good at speaking english well.

I think the most appropiate traduction would be the first one. Because it refers to the castillian people ( now Spain ) commanded by Felip V ( the king ). The right translation, as you said, would be : Drive them back, these people So conceited and so arrogant

I expect my help had been succesful.I've got to thank you for broadcasting and i'm impressed about all you know about this issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.42.250.70 (talk) 16:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The English translation is pretty poor and fails on both literary and dramatic levels. I would improve on it but to be honest, I just have too much (paid) work right now to find the time. 'Land reapers' sounds silly, peasants reap corn, not land. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.143.31 (talk) 10:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I am afraid you are wrong Timothy, the phrase "...aquesta gent tan ufana i tan superba" refers to the Castillians. 'Superb' is a false friend here, 'superba' could be translated as 'boastful', 'self-glorifying' etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.143.31 (talk) 10:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

@83.38.143.31 I did the English Translation, have you seen the official translation in the Generalitat? you can't sing the original translation, i did my best to have both rithm and lyrics match the original, but the diferences in language do take a toll here. it's not the same "bon cop de falç" than "Swing hard the sickle" or the final "Strike though the sickle!", because "bon cop the falç" means "a formidable strike of sickle", it's not a "hard strike" or "a strike" but a formidable one, i can't put this on the song, it doesn't follow the rhyme, so that is the reason of the changes from the catalan. the official translation is a literal translation, you cna't sing it, so I thought i could improve the translation while I keep the rythm. I tried also to have a correct rhyme but I haven't acomplished it.

the only real change in the lyrics translation is in "esmolem ben bé les eines." "we sharp off well our reap hooks." wich the literal translation should be "we sharp off enough the tools" or "we sharp off well the tools" but "tools" here are in the context of the reapers of the land, the sickles, but sickle here didn't match the rithm so i invented this strange idea of "reap hooks" wich sound cool but it's an invention of mine.

about "land reapers", the actual literal translation should be "reapers of the land" not the physical land but the "national land", Catalunya, but in that case also because of the rythm I changed it to "land reapers" I guessed people would understand that this "land" isn't the "land of the crops"

to me the silliest part of the translation is "Strike though the sickle!" because the word "sickle" it sound strange in the end of the phrase, and the "strike though" is plain wrong, but "strike thoughly" sounds worse and really silly. the prhase to me doesn't convey both the power or the anger that the original does. also "falç" does have another meaning: "falç" have the letter "ç" wich is a Catalan letter within the Iberian peninsula languages(i think Romanian also use it) so "falç" is a Catalan word (wich i think comes from the falcata, the iberian sword, but don't take my word for it) so "bon com de falç" is also a strike with the catalan language, so when i hear Sickle, yes is a falç but it no longer conveys that other meaning.

how do you guys would improive it keeping both the significate and the rythm? and is there a way to have a rymme in this? --Biel Bestué (talk) 11:04, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I will change back also the "sharp off well" sentence since it doesn't make sence, you can "sharp well" a tool, or you can "sharp off" a tool, but you can't "sharp off badly" a tool, in that case you don't "sharp off" the tool. "sharp off" alone implies "good enough to cut".

also "well" is not enough to translate "ben bé" because it means literally "completely well" wich isn't the same, also isn't "swell" but "swell" could come closer to the original meaning to the catalan construct than "well".

There is also another reason I didn't use "sharp off" in the first place, I need the syllable or beat of music of the "well" (or "swell" as I used). because "sharp off" is read quickly as one beat of music: "sharpoff" just as "sharpen", but then after sharpen I can include "swell" (which here doesn't have the meaning of "well" but "excellently well") wich in the case of "sharp off" I can't include (becasue it's said already with the "off") so, to me it would be wiser to use here the "sharpen swell" construct.

--85.51.245.30 (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree that 'sharp off' sounds silly — why not 'sharpen' or 'hone the blade'? The comes a point with this kind of translation where one has break the spell cast by the original over the befuddled translator. Hence the need for a much freer text that reflects the spirit of the original but which makes sense in English. If the Generalitat is willing to pay me, I will come up with something decent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.157.233.205 (talk) 11:25, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * All the discussion above is beside the point. The thing is: We have to have a WP:Reliable source for the translation. Is there one? Or two? BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 18:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

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