Talk:Elvira of Castile, Queen of Sicily

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was page moved Thryduulf (talk) 09:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Elvira of Castile (1100–1135) → Elvira of Castile, Queen of Sicily — original name before two renamings - the birth date for this queen is without reliable support; it is highly speculative and should not be given credence by making them part of the page name. Agricolae (talk) 03:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Let me add that the original change was made without discussion, as part of a more broad set of renamings based on dates. However, a naming system based on dates for medieval personages is problematic for several reasons.  Dates are frequently hypothetical, speculative or arbitrary. Even when well attested, this certainty is often based on material not discovered until recent years, meaning that older sources will show different dates from before the true date was known.  This means a reader looking for an individual is left guessing over which ideosyncratic and arbitrary combination of birth and death dates might be used for a page name.  (The current example is a case in point, the birth of Elvira may have occurred anywhere over a seven year span.) Finally it is a matter of utility.  Which is a person looking for this woman likely to know?  Her precise birth and death dates, or the simple fact that she was queen of Sicily?  For all these reasons, dates are inferior to the more straight forward title. Agricolae (talk) 03:55, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree; the last consideration, which applies to almost anybody less well-known than Julius Caesar, should be enough by itself. There are a couple of French Dauphins who died as infants and about whom nothing else is known; they are dabbed by year, but why should anybody else be? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm in favour of renaming in this case. I also think that Elvira of Castile should be a disambiguation page, since the other Elvira doesn't seem more notable than this one. Deb (talk) 20:25, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Concur with Deb. Srnec (talk) 21:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Deb. The marital title (which makes her notable) is more useful than the (possibly incorrect) years. Surtsicna (talk) 17:09, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree - All the above reasons. Consensus appears to have been reached, so carry on and rename.  Jubilee♫ clipman  19:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Tried to move page as per request but was blocked: "Name already exists or is invalid". Admin required!  Jubilee♫ clipman  20:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.