Talk:Embrace (American band Embrace album)

Bonus Tracks Session Source
The liner notes on the remastered version of the album list tracks "12-16 recorded 2/86" implying the alternate versions (back of package lists "15 and 16" as "unreleased alternate versions") are from the second session, rather than the first. Unless someone comes along with more authoritative/"corrected" information, I'm changing the article to reflect this. FangsFirst (talk) 01:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Embrace (2014 album) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:15, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The move made wasn't the move proposed in above RM. See continuation of discussion at Talk:Embrace (English album) In ictu oculi (talk) 11:19, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 23 January 2016

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This is indeed a mess. it is clear that there is awkward wording no matter how this is done, and there is a consensus that the current inconsistency should be resolved, and generally that brackets-within-brackets should go. The proposal with the most support is that by In ictu oculi, and there we will go. bd2412 T 03:27, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

– Today I bring 8 albums that are a non-so-common case. All of them are epynomous albums that were released by non-related artists:
 * Embrace (American band album) → ?
 * Embrace (English band album) → ?
 * Bleach (Bleach (American band) album) → ?
 * Bleach (Bleach (Japanese band) album) → ?
 * Black (1987 album) → ?
 * Black (2011 album) → ?
 * Lucero (Lucero band album) → ?
 * Lucero (Lucero entertainer album) → ?


 * Embrace (American band album) by Embrace (American band)
 * Embrace (English band album) by Embrace (English band)
 * Bleach (Bleach (American band) album) by Bleach (American band)
 * Bleach (Bleach (Japanese band) album) by Bleach (Japanese band)


 * Black (1987 album) by Black (singer)
 * Black (2011 album) by Black (Bangladeshi band)
 * Lucero (Lucero band album) by Lucero (band)
 * Lucero (Lucero entertainer album) by Lucero (entertainer)

All of them have different disambiguation uses, some more valid than the others. "Embrace" was discussed here, with a consensus to move to Embrace (American album) and Embrace (English album), eventually somebody re-moved it. I tried with "Lucero", but there was not support. "Bleach" was discussed here. I later brought it to WP:NCM (here), but there was no major discussion. Now months later, I think there should be a consensus to choose which is the best disambiguation in these cases for further references. The options are:


 * Standard disambiguation:
 * Embrace (Embrace (American band) album)
 * Embrace (Embrace (English band) album)
 * Bleach (Bleach (American band) album)
 * Bleach (Bleach (Japanese band) album)
 * Black (Black (singer) album)
 * Black (Black (Bangladeshi band) album)
 * Lucero (Lucero (band) album)
 * Lucero (Lucero (entertainer) album)


 * Nationality disambiguation
 * Embrace (American album)
 * Embrace (English album)
 * Bleach (American album)
 * Bleach (Japanese album)
 * Black (English album)
 * Black (Bangladeshi album)
 * Lucero (American album)
 * Lucero (Mexican album)


 * Year disambiguation
 * Embrace (1987 album)
 * Embrace (2014 album)
 * Bleach (1999 album)
 * Bleach (2003 album)
 * Black (1987 album)
 * Black (2011 album)
 * Lucero (2001 album)
 * Lucero (1993 album)


 * IIO's proposal at NCM
 * Embrace (American band Embrace album)
 * Embrace (English band Embrace album)
 * Bleach (American band Bleach album)
 * Bleach (Japanese band Bleach album)
 * Black (singer Black album)
 * Black (Bangladeshi band Black album)
 * Lucero (Lucero band Lucero album)
 * Lucero (Lucero entertainer Lucero album)


 * Genre
 * Embrace (post-hardcore album)
 * Embrace (alternative rock album)
 * Bleach (Christian rock album)
 * Bleach (trashcore album)
 * Black (pop album)
 * Black (alternative rock album)
 * Lucero (punk rock album)
 * Lucero (pop album)


 * Full disambiguation
 * Embrace (1987 Embrace (American band) album)
 * Embrace (2014 Embrace (English band) album)
 * Bleach (1999 Bleach (American band) album)
 * Bleach (2003 Bleach (Japanese band) album)
 * Black (1987 Black (singer) album)
 * Black (2011 Black (Bangladeshi band) album)
 * Lucero (2001 Lucero (band) album)
 * Lucero (1993 Lucero (entertainer) album)

I prefer to disambiguate by year, but oppose the usage of brackets-in-brackets. ©  Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 23:12, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Survey

 * Preference for Nationality or Genre; I also oppose the brackets within brackets. IIO's proposal at NCM seems very clunky and overlong. Preference for disambiguation by nationality or genre over year as I think that in searches, readers are less likely to recognise the album they are searching for by the year made, especially as two of these pairs were published only a few years apart (TL;DR year disambiguation is better in cases where the albums were made decades apart). Optionally, 'black' and 'embrace' albums could be disambiguated by year, and the others by some other method. InsertCleverPhraseHere InsertTalkHere 00:23, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Really a bad idea to use year, how on earth can anyone know? Albums aren't like films which have massive opening box-office impact. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Definitely agree on that. InsertCleverPhraseHere InsertTalkHere 09:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, probably no one would know what the correct year is, but no one will know to use any of the other disambiguating strings either (except perhaps dab by genre). Navigation will ultimately need to occur through links from other places, such as band-specific articles, dab pages, and web search results. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Prefer full disambiguation 2nd choice the ones listed at "standard" disambiguation 3rd choice genre disambiguation 4th choice year disambiguation. Do not use others -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 05:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not fond of the nationality disambiguation, as it seems like it is the artist/band, not the album itself, that should be described as being English, Japanese or American. Year or genre would probably be my preference, as they are simple and straightforward and not obviously awkward. IIO and "Standard" and "Full" also seem basically OK. —BarrelProof (talk) 06:26, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Good point on nationality! I've struck it out on my vote. Disagree on year though as per what In ictu oculi said above. InsertCleverPhraseHere InsertTalkHere 09:29, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Edit: This deals with the issues with Nationality brought up above by BarrelProof. I personally still prefer simple genre or nationality dab though. Keep it concise. InsertCleverPhraseHere InsertTalkHere 09:19, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Support disambiguation with band name not year, as 70.51.200.135 and BarrelProof above but can we tweak it to Suggest use natural and WP:RECOGNIZABLE English: we don't have to clip and twist (parenthetical dabs) we can use meaningful and correct English. The following are the way a normal person would describe the albums in normal grammatical English speech in asking for them at a record shop: In ictu oculi (talk) 08:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Embrace (American band Embrace album)
 * Embrace (English band Embrace album)
 * Bleach (American band Bleach album)
 * Bleach (Japanese band Bleach album)
 * Black (singer Black album)
 * Black (Bangladeshi band Black album)
 * Lucero (band Lucero album)
 * Lucero (singer Lucero album)
 * Wait what? That is horribly awkward and clunky. Why would a normal person repeat themselves? If you wanted to go this way, the following would be would be way better than the above suggestion by In ictu oculi:
 * Embrace (American band album)
 * Embrace (English band album)
 * Bleach (American band album)
 * Bleach (Japanese band album)
 * Black (English singer album) OR Black (singer album)
 * Black (Bangladeshi band album) AND Black (band album)
 * Lucero (Mexican band album) OR Lucero (band album)
 * Lucero (American singer album) AND Lucero (singer album)
 * Because "American band" doesn't help, there are more than one American albums and English albums called Embrace: In ictu oculi (talk)


 * Embrace (American band), 1987 album by American band Embace
 * Embrace (Boom Boom Satellites album), 2013
 * Embrace (Endorphin album), 1998
 * Embrace (English band album), 2014 album by English band Embrace
 * Embrace (Armin van Buuren album), a 2015 album by Dutch electronic musician Armin van Buuren
 * Embrace, a 2004 album by American jazz saxophonist Dave Pietro
 * Embrace, a 2002 Hindi-language album by German musician Deva Premal, vocals by Jai Uttal
 * Embrace, a 2003 English-language album by German trance group Fragma
 * Embrace, a 2003 album by American jazz saxophonist Najee
 * Embrace, a 2008 EP by Australian dance duo Pnau
 * Embrace, a 2009 album by American band Sleepy Sun
 * Wow... what a mess. I didn't realise it was that bad. Ok fine, it seems like it is going to be awkward no matter what if we do it that way, so I'll support yours over what I just proposed. I'd like to know what your opinion is on genre dab though, as most people above seemed to think it was ok but not their first choice. InsertCleverPhraseHere InsertTalkHere 16:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I Think this album article should be merged with the band article because it's the only record they ever released. Morganfitzp (talk) 05:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC) Morganfitzp (talk) 05:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
 * thats an option for this album yeah. I don't envy the guy/gal who has to sort this move request out. InsertCleverPhraseHere InsertTalkHere 20:55, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Support disambiguation by year or by genre, in that order. Everything else is too complicated.--Cúchullain t/ c 22:06, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Go with IIO's band name suggestion - Embrace (American band Embrace album) etc. It's very precise, and of all the choices it's the one that gives the most information to someone seeking that album. If you look for an album you won't necessarily know what genre the musicians are, and you won't always know the year, but almost everyone searching for the Embrace American album will know that it's by American band Embrace. And IIO's suggestion is more natural and less clunky than the "standard disambiguation" model with the double brackets. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 16:39, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Support disambiguation by year as the most concise article title. Agreed, no-one is likely to search for an album article by year, but all the other options are equally unlikely as search terms. Inevitably these articles will be reached from a disambiguation page or from links in related articles. Opera hat (talk) 00:57, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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