Talk:Empress Ma (Hongwu)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 07:19, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Empress Xiaocigao (Ming Dynasty) → Empress Ma (Hongwu)
 * Empress Cheng Xiao Zhao → Empress Chengxiaozhao
 * Empress Gong Rang Zhang → Empress Hu Shanxiang
 * Empress Xiao Gong Zhang → Empress Xiaogongzhang
 * Empress Xiao Zhuang Rui → Empress Xiaozhuangrui
 * Empress Xiao Yuan Jing → Empress Xiaoyuanjing
 * Empress Su Xiao → Empress Hang
 * Empress Xiao Zhen Chun → Empress Wang (Chenghua)
 * Empress Xiao Cheng Jing → Empress Xiaochengjing
 * Empress Xiao Jing Yi → Empress Xiaojingyi
 * Empress Xiao Jie Su → Empress Xiaojiesu
 * Empress Zhang (wife of Jiajing Emperor) → Empress Zhang (Jiajing)
 * Empress Xiao Lie → Empress Xiaolie
 * Empress Xiao An → Empress Xiaoan
 * Empress Xiao Duan Xian → Empress Xiaoduanxian
 * Empress Zhuang Lie Min → Empress Zhuangliemin

– Match up with Chinese Wikipedia. Some empress are better known by their surname and for those that are better known by their era name, their characters should be combined.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 00:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment . Support. I'm all for getting rid of the spaces between syllables. (Cheng Xiao Zhao to Chengxiaozhao, etc.) But "Empress Hu (Xuande)" isn't a title used on Chinese Wiki. She is given as Hú Shànxiáng (胡善祥). Tacking a husband's name to the end of a title strikes me as a poor form of disambiguation, especially if we know the subject's full name and can use that. Kauffner (talk) 02:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but then we would have no idea she was empress. How about Empress Hu Shanxiang? Also on a second look, Empress Zhuang Lie Min is an era name; her surname was Zhou not Zhuang. That is one more reason to combine era names so they aren't mistaken for full names. PS: Empress (insert surname) (husband's era name) is used on the English wiki and Chinese wiki when there is more than one empress under that surname.
 * Changes
 * Empress Gong Rang Zhang → Empress Hu Shanxiang
 * Empress Zhuang Lie Min → Empress Zhuangliemin
 * The title should give the subject's name. The reader can find out whether she was an empress or not from the opening sentence. Dictionary of Ming Biography calls her "Empress Hu". But of course she is not the most notable Empress Hu. So I'd suggest either "Empress Hu (Ming Dynasty)" or Hu Shanxiang. The court historian calls her, "，", approximately "lady of Xuanzong, Empress Hu, given name Shanxiang." I don't see anyone calling her "Gong Rang Zhang".
 * Dictionary of Ming Biography and Biographical Dictionary of Chinese Women support the use of "Empress Ma" as well. Kauffner (talk) 15:51, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops, I meant Empress Hu Shanxiang like Empress Lü Zhi. I feel we should follow the Chinese wiki's approach at naming since they definitely had a better understanding of these topics and the subjects' most common and accepted name than the majority of all the editors on the English wiki. But Empress Hu isn't a problem now.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.